Class Notes
Ryan Breen Timothy Perry CLA236 January 25, 2010
Class Notes Midterm
Will include everything from lectures o Lecture on Hesiod and the Theogony o And the whole Iliad
Format
Test will be 1 hr long Worth 25% of total mark Score marked out of 50 points 2 sections o Short answer 20 marks 1. Tests factual knowledge (that you’ve done the reading) 2. Concentrates on the main figures in each of the poems EX: Which hero wounds Aphrodite in book 3 of the iliad? What is an epiphyte? Facts about the poetry Questions about the background (1st class) Most questions will be on content o Commentary 30 marks 1. Given 5 passages taken from primary readings 2. Have to choose 3 of them 3. Comment on what the significance is 4. Each worth 10 marks 5. Apply things discussed in the lectures to passage 6. EX: talk about oral composition 7. EX: talk about formulas – a noun and a epiphate 8. Relate all of it to oral theory 9. Talk about themes 10. Talk about the heroic code and behaviour expected from heroes 11. Intergenerational conflict (Hesiod) 12. Verbal structure – how the passage relates to the broader structure of the poem 13. Length – 1 ½ page ( double spaced ) each 14. Concentrate on the actual passage you have in front of you ( keep it relevant)
ILIAD BOOKS 9- 16 Book 9 Achilles is still in isolation, because of his argument with Agamemnon
This allowed the Trojans to fight better in Achilles absence Acheans have built a wall to protect their ships, in fear of that the war might turn because the Trojans have been fighting better
The Achean Wall
Building may look back to beginning of war o Building of a wall is usually the first thing usually done to establish a camp by the sea for the arriving army Destruction looks forward to end of war o Wall is destroyed by Poseidon and Apollo 1. Poseidon is worried that this wall will be more famous than the wall of try – which he helped build. Influence of Near Eastern myths of destruction o Plan of zeus at beginning of poem in prologue, relates to Near Eastern Influence o Destruction of the wall may be based on these same myths of general destruction o When this wall protecting the ships is first built, Poseidon complains, o Built by the Achaeans, who do not offer a sacrifice o This is Poseidon’s problem o Wall is destroyed through the flood o A number of rivers in troy is diverted to wash away the wall o The represents a near eastern influence, because the world is destroyed by the people being unreligious ( not offering a sacrifice)
Iliad 9 is particulary important in the structure of the Iliad, but it also poses a problem Problems with Iliad 9
Phoenix’ place in the text is uncertain May be a recent addition to the tradition Embassy to Achilles o Described inconsistently o Main action of book Sometimes 3 heroes Sometimes 2 heroes
Beginning of Book 9
Agamemnon is ready to give up the war and go home o This shows that he is a week leader Various people reject o Diamedes o Nester – old hero, an advisor, not a fighter
o
1. Advised Agamemnon to send an embassy to Achilles to try and convince him to come back and fight for the Achaeans 2. Picks 5 people to be in the embassy, 3 heroes = Odysseus, Phoenix, Ajax (giant) 2 escorts = This scene is not well integrated into the poem as a whole 1. This argument is that Phoenix was not an original member of the 3 heroes in the embassy 2. The argument pulls its foundation from some questionably translation from the original Greek writing. 3. Phoenix is the leader of the embassy named by Nectar 4. Problem with translation is that greek have 3 verbs, singular, plural, and a group of 2 5. Odysseus is later named the leader, and phoenix disappears 6. Phoenix However then reappears and delivers the longest speech 7. Argument overall is then if it was just Ajax and Phoenix who went to speak to Achilles or how involved Phoenix really was in the process. Was the addition of the Phoenix added by the poet of the Iliad rather than by Homer?
Purpose of the Embassy and why it fails
o
8. Purpose was to bring Achilles back into the fighting 9. Agamemnon has a long list of gifts he will offer for Achilles to do this. Odysseus’ Speech 1. Great speaker, 2. Repeats Agamemnon’s offer Horses, slave women, return of briscais (Slave woman that was taken) Hand of his daughter in marriage Rich dowry And a list of cities for Achilles to rule 3. Adds other motivations: honour, glory Take pity on the other forces that are fighting ( his Achaean brothers) They will look at Achilles like a God 4. Odysseus alters what Agamemnon says to make it more appealing to Achilles
Achilles replies
He is not going to fight, he is going to leave
Why does he do this? (Achilles Reasoning)
Achilles does not think that Agamemnon’s offer will restore his honour (Geras) – gift that gives honour to the person that it is given) o The reason for this is not entirely clear o It probably has to do with the character of the giver, (who the gift is coming from) – is that person honourable? o Achilles does not think Agamemnon is honourable 1. Agamemnon a coward 2. Agamemnon’s offer a bribe ( his gifts are only wealth, they don’t bring honour) 3. No matter how much Agamemnon offers will not change his mind o Achilles therefore wants Agamemnon to pay back his honour but he doesn’t make it clear what Agamemnon can actually do to repay this ‘honour’.
Phoenix’ Speech
Uses exile story to dissuade Achilles from leaving Uses Meleager story to persuade Achilles to fight Both stories use parallels with Achilles situation o Phoenix says his father Amatiur takes a concubine o His wife is not thrilled with this o The mother wants phoenix to sleep with his father’s concubine o Amatiur finds out about this and curses Phoenix to sterility (earlier version has him castrated, homer tones it down) o Phoenix wants to kill his father because of this, but is prevented from doing so by a God. o 9 days of isolation from castration o He flees to Achilles household, as an exile, becomes rich, and sort of a father figure to Achilles o This is the story of Phoenix’ exile as told by Phoenix himself The Parallels are: 1. 2. 3. 4.
o
o o o o o o
Argument with figure of authority of a woman Phoenix with his father over a concubine, and Achilles over a slave girl with Agamemnon A murder in both stories was prevented by a God Period of withdrawl Phoenix goes to his room for 9 days Achilles withdraws from the battle to his hut 5. Actual departure of Phoenix into Exile 6. Achilles is threatening to do the same thing ( potential parallel) 7. Phoenix is using his exile story here to persuade Achilles from leaving He defines his departure in ridiculous terms That it was not heroic behaviour, therefore Achilles departure would be un-heroic nd Phoenix 2 story of Meleager 1. Purpose is to pursued Achilles to fight 2. Meleager was a hero from a generation or two earlier ( recent past)
God sends a boar to rage the land since she did not get a sacrifice Heroes are summoned to hunt the boar Boar is huge in size, and would make a great trophy Meleager ends up killing his uncles from another city Meleagers mother curses him Meleager refuses to fight, since he is cursed, withdraws to his room, embassy is sent to offer awards for his return to the fight o Eventually the boar breaks into the city and knocks on his door and he ends up having to fight anyway, just to save himself Parralels
Argument with a figure demanding respect o Meleager fights with his mother regarding honour o Achilles fights with Agamemnon over honour Period of withdrawal o Both go into isolation Meleager does return to the fighting when his life is threatened, when his life is in danger, but he receives no reward. Phoenix is suggesting that if Achilles does come back to the fight that he will do one better than Meleager, and gain wealth as well.
Achilles reacts a little more positively
He says that he will think about staying ( at least for one more night) No suggestion that he is going to fight Exile narrative succeeds Meleager story does not
Ajax’s Speech (also known as Aias)
Speech is short, he does not have too much to stay He is a fighter and a warrior, but a man of few words He stresses the past friendship of Achilles and the other Achaean warriors That he has a loyalty to the other soldiers through bonds of friendship
Achilles acknowledges this
But still refuses to fight Agamemnon’s treatment of Achilles is still preventing him to submit to any of these arguments Overall at least he is going to stay and think over the night if he will stay.
Iliad 11 Agamemnon’s arming
Example of a ‘type’ scene’ o A distinct and repeated narrative pattern o Certain actions are repeated on several occasions, during the poem 1. Meal is prepared 2. Sacrifice is made o A fixed way of describing these type of events o Exactly the same way and order things occur o Provides for the poet a order for the action o Sometimes known as motifs o Feature of poetry o Iliad and the Odyssey a product of oral tradition o Composed without writing, in performance o Useful to have this remade narrative structures ( often in small scale but can be expanded on) o Formula is very small and does not contain in itself a narrative pattern o Formula is basically a small group of words, could even be two words, epiphyte
o Formula can extend up to a small line, but still very short o Provide typical building blocks, specifically for the metre o Provide structure for the whole scene Distinct and repeated narrative pattern A feature of oral composition Still leaves scope for originality o Basic structure is quite simple, and does not contain many narrative points o But poet can add details and modify it, for different variations of scenes Shows that Agamemnon has to be taken seriously, at least as a hero Even Hector does not dare meet Agamemnon during his Aristeia Good example of an embellished type scene, o Provides lots and lots of detail Arming of a hero is a common occurrence in the poem Iliad 3 type scene, - arming of Paris b4 he fights menalayeous o Has to borrow someone else’s armour (his brothers breast plate) 1. Shows his lack of commitment to fighting = added detail, not part of the type scene Iliad 16 type scene: arming of pataw??? Iliad 19 type scene : arming of Achilles Each of these examples is used by the poet in various ways to set up a theme Agamemnon’s arming scene is the largest in the poem (long descriptions of his vary ornate weapons) o This suggests his power, as much as his military prowess o Description of his breast plate describes this o Expensive sword, made of silver, straps for his swords have gold fittings o Great power, great wealth Achilles’ arming scene o Slightly shorter o Less emphasis on the decoration of his weapons o However in another part there is a very detailed description of his shield o Rather more emphasis on his military power and skill
Nestor’s story Achilles sees a wounded Achean, sends Petropolis to identify this person. Nestor uses this opportunity to try and convince Petropolis to return to the fighting in Achilles place. To make his point, Nestor tells a story about his youth and his heroics, in a story of a battle between his city and his neighbouring city over the conflict of cattle
Typically digressive speech o Characterization 1. Nector is an old man who likes to talk about himself in great length o Heroic past 1. Establishes his authority, he is too old to fight now, but once was a great hero 2. Shows how the poet is much more interested in the heroic past. Digressions are not directly related to the Trojan war. He does that as every opportunity he can. 3. Also done in book 6 by melachus telling a long story b4 the Trojan Wall o Paradigm 1. Common form of argument in epic
2. Long mythological examples are known as paradigm 3. These paradigms are supposed to tell the hero how they should be acting.
ILIAD 14 Books 12- 15 are notable for their variety on their descriptions of battle Poetic devices used in these books, to prevent monotony and prevent chaos (human suffering) Similes
Often drawn from context of agriculture or crafts (domestic or trade) o EX: Ajax like a stubborn Ass o EX: line of battle compared to ship building o Compared with items of peace time o Make use of humour o Makes use of productivity (ship-building) o Juxtaposed with scenes of extreme violence 1. Emphasizes the savagery of war Contrast with the surrounding battle narrative
Depiction of the God’s Deception of Zeus 1. 2. 3. 4.
Hera uses Aphrodite to deceive zeus Bribes god of sleep to helping her She allows Zeus to seduce her While Zeus is asleep, Poseidon is allowed to wreak havoc on the battle field without Zeus noticing
Also contrasts with the surrounding narrative Description of Hera Zeus’ speech to Hera Emphasizes the savagery of war Touches on humour on this narrative o ZEUS’s speech to Hera God’s come off in this narrative as frivolously, they don’t really care because there are no bad consequences The can afford to approach this sort of situation, warfare, half-heartedly Consequences of their actions for the human involved are rather dire as a result of the deception o Caused a great deal of carnage (human suffereing)
General Remarks, On Gods and Humans in Epic
Gods are very involved in action Greeks themselves regarded Hesiod and Homer as “the beginning” of their religion (found figures)
Herodotus – wrote it was Hesiod an Homer who created the Theogony for the Greeks, and the basic details of Greek religion. o Homer and Hesiod were very influential on the depictions of the Gods o Homer’s God’s were deeply rooted in the oral tradition o The origins of the Greek gods are much older than that
Gods in Homeric Epic Origins: Indo-European
EX: Zeus = Wind God o His name is related to gods that fulfilled similar functions in Indo-European functions
Asiatic
Aphrodite Apollo Greeks borrowed them at a later stage from the neighbours from Asia Minor (modern day Turkey)
When did the Greeks take over popular consensus of these Gods?
Dark ages after the Mycenaean world A lot of the names of these gods are found on stone tablets from the Mycenaean era Much religious ritual is suppressed o Problematic because the gods depicted by Homer and Greek religion did not line up exactly 1. These texts are literary and not religious 2. Do not hear about actual rituals in the Odyssey or Iliad 3. We do hear about sacrifice, but there are a number of things we don’t hear about EX: rituals involing fertility EX: rituals involving agriculture EX: communal religious festivals EX: colt worship of the dead heroes from previous generations ( brief mention in Iliad but not emphasized) Strict division between the divine and the human 1. Very clear gap in Homer between the human and the divine 2. For example: everyone in the Iliad, and more or less in the Odysee as well. When people die, they all go to Hades 3. For Example: Mynalayeous – gets a bitter fate that he goes off to a lesser land and lives for eternity 4. For Example: Peracles – elsewhere in mythological tradition, he goes up to join the God’s after Olympus. ( special treatment 5. This ultimately is seen to result in human dignity 6. This is the only life we get, there is nothing waiting after death, we only get one shot 7. Therefore you maximize the honour you can receive throughout your life, since it is the only chance you get
8. Divine achievements are sometimes possible for heroes ( EX: Diamedes is able to wound Aphrodite) but divine existence is not—all heroes are going to die 9. The gods live forever without any real suffereing This makes their choices more unserious Human choices are more serious because they could potentially result in real suffereing The Gods and Free Will
Divine intervention and free will viewed as separate o Great deal of debate 1. No free will at all Helen had no choice but to sleep with Paris 2. Free will is complete Aphrodite was only their as a literary device to influence her decision o Most scholars would settle for a middle-ground between these 2 views Double motivation Human action presents as tragic either way Relationship between gods and fate also problematic
Class Notes Midterm
Will include everything from lectures o Lecture on Hesiod and the Theogony o And the whole Iliad
Format
Test will be 1 hr long Worth 25% of total mark Score marked out of 50 points 2 sections o Short answer 20 marks 1. Tests factual knowledge (that you’ve done the reading) 2. Concentrates on the main figures in each of the poems EX: Which hero wounds Aphrodite in book 3 of the iliad? What is an epiphyte? Facts about the poetry Questions about the background (1st class) Most questions will be on content o Commentary 30 marks 1. Given 5 passages taken from primary readings 2. Have to choose 3 of them 3. Comment on what the significance is 4. Each worth 10 marks 5. Apply things discussed in the lectures to passage 6. EX: talk about oral composition 7. EX: talk about formulas – a noun and a epiphate 8. Relate all of it to oral theory 9. Talk about themes 10. Talk about the heroic code and behaviour expected from heroes 11. Intergenerational conflict (Hesiod) 12. Verbal structure – how the passage relates to the broader structure of the poem 13. Length – 1 ½ page ( double spaced ) each 14. Concentrate on the actual passage you have in front of you ( keep it relevant)
ILIAD BOOKS 9- 16 Book 9 Achilles is still in isolation, because of his argument with Agamemnon
This allowed the Trojans to fight better in Achilles absence Acheans have built a wall to protect their ships, in fear of that the war might turn because the Trojans have been fighting better
The Achean Wall
Building may look back to beginning of war o Building of a wall is usually the first thing usually done to establish a camp by the sea for the arriving army Destruction looks forward to end of war o Wall is destroyed by Poseidon and Apollo 1. Poseidon is worried that this wall will be more famous than the wall of try – which he helped build. Influence of Near Eastern myths of destruction o Plan of zeus at beginning of poem in prologue, relates to Near Eastern Influence o Destruction of the wall may be based on these same myths of general destruction o When this wall protecting the ships is first built, Poseidon complains, o Built by the Achaeans, who do not offer a sacrifice o This is Poseidon’s problem o Wall is destroyed through the flood o A number of rivers in troy is diverted to wash away the wall o The represents a near eastern influence, because the world is destroyed by the people being unreligious ( not offering a sacrifice)
Iliad 9 is particulary important in the structure of the Iliad, but it also poses a problem Problems with Iliad 9
Phoenix’ place in the text is uncertain May be a recent addition to the tradition Embassy to Achilles o Described inconsistently o Main action of book Sometimes 3 heroes Sometimes 2 heroes
Beginning of Book 9
Agamemnon is ready to give up the war and go home o This shows that he is a week leader Various people reject o Diamedes o Nester – old hero, an advisor, not a fighter
o
1. Advised Agamemnon to send an embassy to Achilles to try and convince him to come back and fight for the Achaeans 2. Picks 5 people to be in the embassy, 3 heroes = Odysseus, Phoenix, Ajax (giant) 2 escorts = This scene is not well integrated into the poem as a whole 1. This argument is that Phoenix was not an original member of the 3 heroes in the embassy 2. The argument pulls its foundation from some questionably translation from the original Greek writing. 3. Phoenix is the leader of the embassy named by Nectar 4. Problem with translation is that greek have 3 verbs, singular, plural, and a group of 2 5. Odysseus is later named the leader, and phoenix disappears 6. Phoenix However then reappears and delivers the longest speech 7. Argument overall is then if it was just Ajax and Phoenix who went to speak to Achilles or how involved Phoenix really was in the process. Was the addition of the Phoenix added by the poet of the Iliad rather than by Homer?
Purpose of the Embassy and why it fails
o
8. Purpose was to bring Achilles back into the fighting 9. Agamemnon has a long list of gifts he will offer for Achilles to do this. Odysseus’ Speech 1. Great speaker, 2. Repeats Agamemnon’s offer Horses, slave women, return of briscais (Slave woman that was taken) Hand of his daughter in marriage Rich dowry And a list of cities for Achilles to rule 3. Adds other motivations: honour, glory Take pity on the other forces that are fighting ( his Achaean brothers) They will look at Achilles like a God 4. Odysseus alters what Agamemnon says to make it more appealing to Achilles
Achilles replies
He is not going to fight, he is going to leave
Why does he do this? (Achilles Reasoning)
Achilles does not think that Agamemnon’s offer will restore his honour (Geras) – gift that gives honour to the person that it is given) o The reason for this is not entirely clear o It probably has to do with the character of the giver, (who the gift is coming from) – is that person honourable? o Achilles does not think Agamemnon is honourable 1. Agamemnon a coward 2. Agamemnon’s offer a bribe ( his gifts are only wealth, they don’t bring honour) 3. No matter how much Agamemnon offers will not change his mind o Achilles therefore wants Agamemnon to pay back his honour but he doesn’t make it clear what Agamemnon can actually do to repay this ‘honour’.
Phoenix’ Speech
Uses exile story to dissuade Achilles from leaving Uses Meleager story to persuade Achilles to fight Both stories use parallels with Achilles situation o Phoenix says his father Amatiur takes a concubine o His wife is not thrilled with this o The mother wants phoenix to sleep with his father’s concubine o Amatiur finds out about this and curses Phoenix to sterility (earlier version has him castrated, homer tones it down) o Phoenix wants to kill his father because of this, but is prevented from doing so by a God. o 9 days of isolation from castration o He flees to Achilles household, as an exile, becomes rich, and sort of a father figure to Achilles o This is the story of Phoenix’ exile as told by Phoenix himself The Parallels are: 1. 2. 3. 4.
o
o o o o o o
Argument with figure of authority of a woman Phoenix with his father over a concubine, and Achilles over a slave girl with Agamemnon A murder in both stories was prevented by a God Period of withdrawl Phoenix goes to his room for 9 days Achilles withdraws from the battle to his hut 5. Actual departure of Phoenix into Exile 6. Achilles is threatening to do the same thing ( potential parallel) 7. Phoenix is using his exile story here to persuade Achilles from leaving He defines his departure in ridiculous terms That it was not heroic behaviour, therefore Achilles departure would be un-heroic nd Phoenix 2 story of Meleager 1. Purpose is to pursued Achilles to fight 2. Meleager was a hero from a generation or two earlier ( recent past)
God sends a boar to rage the land since she did not get a sacrifice Heroes are summoned to hunt the boar Boar is huge in size, and would make a great trophy Meleager ends up killing his uncles from another city Meleagers mother curses him Meleager refuses to fight, since he is cursed, withdraws to his room, embassy is sent to offer awards for his return to the fight o Eventually the boar breaks into the city and knocks on his door and he ends up having to fight anyway, just to save himself Parralels
Argument with a figure demanding respect o Meleager fights with his mother regarding honour o Achilles fights with Agamemnon over honour Period of withdrawal o Both go into isolation Meleager does return to the fighting when his life is threatened, when his life is in danger, but he receives no reward. Phoenix is suggesting that if Achilles does come back to the fight that he will do one better than Meleager, and gain wealth as well.
Achilles reacts a little more positively
He says that he will think about staying ( at least for one more night) No suggestion that he is going to fight Exile narrative succeeds Meleager story does not
Ajax’s Speech (also known as Aias)
Speech is short, he does not have too much to stay He is a fighter and a warrior, but a man of few words He stresses the past friendship of Achilles and the other Achaean warriors That he has a loyalty to the other soldiers through bonds of friendship
Achilles acknowledges this
But still refuses to fight Agamemnon’s treatment of Achilles is still preventing him to submit to any of these arguments Overall at least he is going to stay and think over the night if he will stay.
Iliad 11 Agamemnon’s arming
Example of a ‘type’ scene’ o A distinct and repeated narrative pattern o Certain actions are repeated on several occasions, during the poem 1. Meal is prepared 2. Sacrifice is made o A fixed way of describing these type of events o Exactly the same way and order things occur o Provides for the poet a order for the action o Sometimes known as motifs o Feature of poetry o Iliad and the Odyssey a product of oral tradition o Composed without writing, in performance o Useful to have this remade narrative structures ( often in small scale but can be expanded on) o Formula is very small and does not contain in itself a narrative pattern o Formula is basically a small group of words, could even be two words, epiphyte
o Formula can extend up to a small line, but still very short o Provide typical building blocks, specifically for the metre o Provide structure for the whole scene Distinct and repeated narrative pattern A feature of oral composition Still leaves scope for originality o Basic structure is quite simple, and does not contain many narrative points o But poet can add details and modify it, for different variations of scenes Shows that Agamemnon has to be taken seriously, at least as a hero Even Hector does not dare meet Agamemnon during his Aristeia Good example of an embellished type scene, o Provides lots and lots of detail Arming of a hero is a common occurrence in the poem Iliad 3 type scene, - arming of Paris b4 he fights menalayeous o Has to borrow someone else’s armour (his brothers breast plate) 1. Shows his lack of commitment to fighting = added detail, not part of the type scene Iliad 16 type scene: arming of pataw??? Iliad 19 type scene : arming of Achilles Each of these examples is used by the poet in various ways to set up a theme Agamemnon’s arming scene is the largest in the poem (long descriptions of his vary ornate weapons) o This suggests his power, as much as his military prowess o Description of his breast plate describes this o Expensive sword, made of silver, straps for his swords have gold fittings o Great power, great wealth Achilles’ arming scene o Slightly shorter o Less emphasis on the decoration of his weapons o However in another part there is a very detailed description of his shield o Rather more emphasis on his military power and skill
Nestor’s story Achilles sees a wounded Achean, sends Petropolis to identify this person. Nestor uses this opportunity to try and convince Petropolis to return to the fighting in Achilles place. To make his point, Nestor tells a story about his youth and his heroics, in a story of a battle between his city and his neighbouring city over the conflict of cattle
Typically digressive speech o Characterization 1. Nector is an old man who likes to talk about himself in great length o Heroic past 1. Establishes his authority, he is too old to fight now, but once was a great hero 2. Shows how the poet is much more interested in the heroic past. Digressions are not directly related to the Trojan war. He does that as every opportunity he can. 3. Also done in book 6 by melachus telling a long story b4 the Trojan Wall o Paradigm 1. Common form of argument in epic
2. Long mythological examples are known as paradigm 3. These paradigms are supposed to tell the hero how they should be acting.
ILIAD 14 Books 12- 15 are notable for their variety on their descriptions of battle Poetic devices used in these books, to prevent monotony and prevent chaos (human suffering) Similes
Often drawn from context of agriculture or crafts (domestic or trade) o EX: Ajax like a stubborn Ass o EX: line of battle compared to ship building o Compared with items of peace time o Make use of humour o Makes use of productivity (ship-building) o Juxtaposed with scenes of extreme violence 1. Emphasizes the savagery of war Contrast with the surrounding battle narrative
Depiction of the God’s Deception of Zeus 1. 2. 3. 4.
Hera uses Aphrodite to deceive zeus Bribes god of sleep to helping her She allows Zeus to seduce her While Zeus is asleep, Poseidon is allowed to wreak havoc on the battle field without Zeus noticing
Also contrasts with the surrounding narrative Description of Hera Zeus’ speech to Hera Emphasizes the savagery of war Touches on humour on this narrative o ZEUS’s speech to Hera God’s come off in this narrative as frivolously, they don’t really care because there are no bad consequences The can afford to approach this sort of situation, warfare, half-heartedly Consequences of their actions for the human involved are rather dire as a result of the deception o Caused a great deal of carnage (human suffereing)
General Remarks, On Gods and Humans in Epic
Gods are very involved in action Greeks themselves regarded Hesiod and Homer as “the beginning” of their religion (found figures)
Herodotus – wrote it was Hesiod an Homer who created the Theogony for the Greeks, and the basic details of Greek religion. o Homer and Hesiod were very influential on the depictions of the Gods o Homer’s God’s were deeply rooted in the oral tradition o The origins of the Greek gods are much older than that
Gods in Homeric Epic Origins: Indo-European
EX: Zeus = Wind God o His name is related to gods that fulfilled similar functions in Indo-European functions
Asiatic
Aphrodite Apollo Greeks borrowed them at a later stage from the neighbours from Asia Minor (modern day Turkey)
When did the Greeks take over popular consensus of these Gods?
Dark ages after the Mycenaean world A lot of the names of these gods are found on stone tablets from the Mycenaean era Much religious ritual is suppressed o Problematic because the gods depicted by Homer and Greek religion did not line up exactly 1. These texts are literary and not religious 2. Do not hear about actual rituals in the Odyssey or Iliad 3. We do hear about sacrifice, but there are a number of things we don’t hear about EX: rituals involing fertility EX: rituals involving agriculture EX: communal religious festivals EX: colt worship of the dead heroes from previous generations ( brief mention in Iliad but not emphasized) Strict division between the divine and the human 1. Very clear gap in Homer between the human and the divine 2. For example: everyone in the Iliad, and more or less in the Odysee as well. When people die, they all go to Hades 3. For Example: Mynalayeous – gets a bitter fate that he goes off to a lesser land and lives for eternity 4. For Example: Peracles – elsewhere in mythological tradition, he goes up to join the God’s after Olympus. ( special treatment 5. This ultimately is seen to result in human dignity 6. This is the only life we get, there is nothing waiting after death, we only get one shot 7. Therefore you maximize the honour you can receive throughout your life, since it is the only chance you get
8. Divine achievements are sometimes possible for heroes ( EX: Diamedes is able to wound Aphrodite) but divine existence is not—all heroes are going to die 9. The gods live forever without any real suffereing This makes their choices more unserious Human choices are more serious because they could potentially result in real suffereing The Gods and Free Will
Divine intervention and free will viewed as separate o Great deal of debate 1. No free will at all Helen had no choice but to sleep with Paris 2. Free will is complete Aphrodite was only their as a literary device to influence her decision o Most scholars would settle for a middle-ground between these 2 views Double motivation Human action presents as tragic either way Relationship between gods and fate also problematic
