Jay Kinder With Spike Humer
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Jay Kinder With Spike Humer
Jay Kinder Interview
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November, 2010
Jay:
Welcome, Kinder Reese Inner Circle members, friends and family alike. We have a super special call today. This is a Rock Star interview, as we like to call it, and this time we are really outdoing ourselves. We're talking today with Spike Humer of SpikeHumer.com. Spike is a performance enhancement and management expert. Spike, you are one of the most respected people in business today. I had the privilege of meeting you when my business partner, John Kitchens, and I flew to an event that you were co-presenting with Jay Abraham. I know you've done a lot of work with Jay. It was an amazing event. I had a great time and learned an immense amount. Could you explain a little more about your position and what it is you do for big companies?
Spike: What I do Jay, in a nutshell, is help people get very, very clear about what it is they want to do both in life and business. I help people formulate what would be the most effective strategies to get them from where they are to where they want to go. I then help them implement the tactics, resources and skill sets that are necessary to make sure that they not only get on track, but they stay on track along the way. Jay:
I really appreciate your time and willingness to do this interview, Spike. One of the things Mike and I did at Kinder Reese, in order to make a giant gain in our real estate businesses, was to look outside of our own industry to see what other businesses were doing: How they were strategically positioning themselves, how they attacked large growth and how they changed along with the market. We learned an amazing amount from you that enabled us to do this. You and I have talked offline about this. How do you reset and reposition your business for massive growth in times like today?
Spike: That's a great question, Jay. I would say there is a couple of things. The first thing is to recognize that change affects and exists in every business and exists in every person's life. This really comes down to a question of whether it's forced change or whether it's planned change. A lot of my background has been in working with organizations in turnaround situations. Someone will call me up in the middle of the night and say, "Holy crap, I can't make payroll." They are really facing a point of desperation and demise.
Jay Kinder Interview
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November, 2010
What I've done for the better part of the last ten years has been to work with companies and individuals to teach them not to wait until they're being forced to change, but rather help them find a point where they can change. Now, I recognize the challenges that are going on in the real estate industry, but I would also share with you that many businesses in many industries are facing similar challenges. Yet there is a model, a path and a process that, regardless of the business, industry or situation being faced, can help them get from where they are to where they want to go. Jay:
Absolutely. There are a lot of winners in the Kinder Reese program that are modeling some of the things that we've done to be successful. What about opportunity? This kind of real estate market really weeds out the weak and puts opportunity into perspective. How do you sniff out the opportunities for business at a time like this?
Spike: Well, I think there are two key elements, Jay. Number one is to understand that regardless of how tough the economy is or how tough an industry is, there is still business being done. It's a question of how much of that business are you able to capture? How much business are you able to maintain in times of turmoil or times of transition? The key element in that, which you mentioned, is that there are people that have a winning mindset. There are people that have winning strategies that allow them to be successful as the weak get weeded out. Most importantly, the key during a tough economy or a tough situation or a competitive economy is being able to stand up, stand out and get the attention of people in such a way that they see you as a unique solution. They see the value that you bring as different from anyone, including your major competitors. What is the value proposition? What is the value experience? What is the component of trust or components of credibility that you bring to the marketplace, that you bring to that relationship, that you bring to that transaction that your competitors don't? The more clearly you can articulate that, the more clearly you can position that and the more clearly you can demonstrate that; the more successful you can be in any economy or any industry regardless of the situation or condition. Jay:
Okay, you've got me fired up now. We've been having this discussion concerning all of our real estate businesses, not only for Kinder Reese but also for our clients.
Jay Kinder Interview
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November, 2010
I'd like to get your take on this and how it applies. We did some research on our marketing. We always had a USP based around a guaranteed sale, and that worked very well over the years for us. We recently have been looking at changing things up a little. If you're a homeowner looking to sell your house, there's only three basic things that you look for. You want to sell fast for the most money and without a bunch of problems along the way. Every real estate agent makes that promise in one way or another. It's been a real challenge to articulate that value in your message and everything you do and, as you said, stand up and stand out. So we did some research using both Amazon searches and Google keywords. We searched for phrases like "sell your home fast" or keywords like "sell your home fast" versus "sell your home for the most money". What we found was a much, much larger number of people today are searching "sell your home fast (now, today)" versus searching for ways to sell their home, prepare it for the market and sell it for the most money. So we're trying to craft a way to position our businesses [with a message] that resonates with what people are looking for today. What other kinds of elements would you look for to determine what to focus on to craft the message that will resonate with your marketplace? Spike: Well, I'll answer your question in just a second, Jay. I want to back up, if you wouldn't mind, for just a moment. I'm going to make a distinction here that I think will not only change the perspective of many of your listeners, but in some cases transform their business and their approach to business. The term "unique selling proposition" goes back to 1961 when Rosser Reeves wrote the book Reality in Advertising. It was a great term, and I think it's a great peg for people to position what it is that they do. However, I think it's an obsolete term, and let me tell you the reason why. I use the term "unique value proposition" and I coined it probably seven or eight years ago, because I make a strong distinction between marketing and selling. I think most businesses don't understand the real distinction between the two, and I'll share with you a very simple way to make that distinction, and tie this into the question that you asked. The difference between marketing and selling is this. Most businesses— whether they are real estate businesses or mortgage businesses or large Jay Kinder Interview
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November, 2010
businesses—will combine the functions of sales and marketing. Well, first of all, they have it backwards. You can't sell until you market. Second of all, they're not the same thing. Marketing is about conveying value to the marketplace. Selling is about earning trust. Until trust exists a transaction can't take place, and until trust exists a relationship can't develop. So one of the things I would share from a value standpoint—and I commend you for being able to see this—is that most businesses miss that. I think it really comes down to this. If people today were more concerned about selling their home quickly as opposed to selling it for the most money, then their value has changed. So the value proposition that you offer to people and the way you articulate it and the way you position it is distinctly different than when the market is rising, home properties are going up and people are looking to get the most money possible. Understand that when you're selling something, you're not only conveying value through your marketing, but you're conveying the trust that allows that relationship to take place so that the transaction can ultimately take place. Now whether you say it in a sentence; whether you say it in two paragraphs; whether you demonstrate it through your testimonials, endorsements or whatever, if the market really is asking for that, you have to be able to convey that through your unique value proposition. Now how you do it in terms of how you say it really comes down to your core values and what it is that allows you to stand out from your competition. The vast majority of other agents or brokers may not be doing that, but there will be some; so if you start doing it and it starts working, people will start to emulate and imitate that. What you have to be able to do is to take not only that value of helping people sell their home fast, but demonstrate it and back it up with a point of credibility that allows that trust to take place so the transaction can take place; not just with anyone, but with you. Jay:
Gotcha. Okay, that was a lot but I'm taking notes as we go, as I always do. I'm always learning. You said something in terms of the value, then the selling, then the relationship. And you related the value to the marketing, the marketing to value, and then the selling to building trust.
Jay Kinder Interview
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November, 2010
Talk to me about that part of it, because when it comes down to marketing, they're spending money on postcards and billboards. There are different marketing pillars that we have. How do you build the trust in the selling process? Explain to me that part of it. How you build trust? Spike: Well, it really does start with the marketing end of it, Jay. The bottom line is the more value you can convey, and the more value you can convey on a credible basis, the easier it is for people to gain trust. That's why celebrity endorsements, testimonials, recommendations and those types of things are so very, very powerful. The biggest thing is it comes down to consistency and congruency. If what you say is what you do, it's much easier to get that trust. If what you're saying is not what you do, there's an incongruity and a disconnect which actually breaks the bond of trust. So the very first thing that I would say is that you set the buying criteria, or the experience criteria, or the value criteria in terms of what it is you do, how you do it, when you do it, where you do it, for whom you do it, and what happens if you don’t do it. It's those components that hold people back. It's not just about visibility. It's not just about putting your name on a billboard or putting a business card out there. If that were the case, the person that had the biggest billboard or the most billboards would be the person that got the most business. There's a difference between having the greatest level of recognition versus having the greatest level of relationship and the greatest level of transaction. You need to be very consistent about what it is that you do, and what it is that people can expect if they do business with you that's going to make that experience or that transaction or that relationship not only unique, but also consistent with what it is that they're looking for, what it is that you're saying you're going to give them, and what it is that they can come to expect that will satisfy their needs and their values in a way that they can trust and they can confidently believe that it's going to happen not one time, but every single time. Often people in the real estate industry will tell me, "You know what? It really is a one-time transaction." Well, in many cases it's not. I know that when I've bought homes, I've bought more than one home from a real estate agent. But more importantly, when I bought a home my friends said, "Oh, I love your home. It's great that you bought this. And who did you use? I'm looking for a real estate agent."
Jay Kinder Interview
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November, 2010
So in many cases that relationship that you're building is not just a one-time transaction. That consistency and congruency becomes even more pronounced, even more important when times are uncertain or times are tough, because getting referrals or being able to stand out in a very favorable and positive way in the minds of your prospects and your clients and the people that you do business with is even more important today. Consistency and congruency are elements that convey that what you say you're going to do is what you actually do, and that you are able to create that commitment up-front to an experience that people can expect and will ultimately realize when they do a transaction with you. Jay:
That is huge, and I want to point out a chink in the armor of the real estate industry which relates to many of us on this call. What you're saying has really resonated with me, so I'm going to reveal a fault at this point. We've been running the Guaranteed Sale Program for a long time, and the reason it works well is based on the principles that you just walked us through. It resonates with the value that they want to experience. They want their home guaranteed to sell. The reality of the Guaranteed Sale Program, at least with most real estate agents, is it is guaranteed to be sold or you'll buy it. That's a program that’s run, but it's not actually the experience everyone gets that chooses to do business with you. When you're talking to someone who may have done business with you, they're not resonating with your value proposition because they actually didn't even participate in the Guaranteed Sale Program. There is that disconnect that you talked about. This is what sparked our research effort to try and figure out a better way to position our company so we can execute and deliver value with a proven and repeatable system that resonates what it is they want to experience. That way we don't miss out on that trust. I bring that up because that's where we're looking to get better, and that's a huge help. It is important to the lifetime value of your clients, the repeat business and the referral business that's potentially out there.
Spike: Absolutely, Jay. It's funny because I mentioned that I coined the term "unique value proposition," but I actually started elevating it from "unique selling proposition" to "unique value proposition" about ten years ago.
Jay Kinder Interview
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November, 2010
In my programs of late I've actually taken it to an even different level. It's now a "unique experience proposition" because it's not just about the value. It's about the experience that people have when they engage you or they work with you whether or not it involves a transaction. If you can create a unique experience where people can come and feel confident and comfortable and have that level of trust; even if they don't buy or even if they don't list their house with you, they still walk away with a unique experience that your competitors and, in most cases, no one else around you can emulate or duplicate or in most cases imitate. Jay:
Absolutely. I love that. If you don't mind, I'll put a TM next to that for Spike, but I'm going to use that. It is about the experience. The real estate industry is, unfortunately, broken. There's no brand loyalty because companies aren't managing the consumer's experience. The broker allows us, as agents, to come in and work but no one manages the actual process that goes on and makes sure that it's the same every time. The loyalty to brands in this industry is little to none. It's left up to us, as real estate agents, to perfect these systems and put them in place so you can really harness the long-term benefits of your clients coming back and having experiences that they go tell their friends about.
Spike: Yes, absolutely, Jay, and I think especially in the real estate industry. There are other industries that I've worked with and done training in that are similar. What happens with many industries when competition becomes very tough is they become commoditized, where basically people are just looking for the lowest price or the fastest transaction or the most seamless experience they possibly can have. And while that's certainly in the favor of the consumer, the person who is hiring or buying the service or product; it's certainly not in the interest of the business owner or service provider. So one of the things that I think is absolutely vital for businesses when they become affected by pricing and almost become commoditized is being able to stand out and convey to people that this isn't just about the dollars and cents. This isn't just about speed or time. This is about satisfying their needs and their values, and I'll give you an example. When I work with a client, one of the first things that I do is ask, "What is it that you are trying to accomplish through this interaction, through this relationship or
Jay Kinder Interview
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November, 2010
through this engagement?" And they'll tell me. And I'll ask the question, "Why is that important to you?" I think the reason that it may be important to them may not necessarily be the real reason that's important to them; and the better I know that, the better I understand that, the better I'm able to articulate everything that I'm doing and the reasons why I'm doing it through the value filter that they perceive that is important to them. It enhances not only the result, but it enhances the perceived value and the realized value of what it is that they're getting through that transaction, through that relationship. It's appealing to their personal values and the reasons why they're trying to accomplish what it is that they're trying to accomplish. Jay:
We have talked a bit offline about the model that you take someone through in order to really assess and determine what are those steps they want to take. How would you start that process? Can you walk us through that a little bit?
Spike: When I work with a business, Jay; it matters not whether it's a large business, small business or a sole proprietor. It could even be working with someone on a personal performance basis. I use a model called ASIA, and it's actually a trademark model that I put together about seven or eight years ago. And it's not for the continent of Asia. It actually is an acronym for a four-stage process that I go through. The first letter in ASIA obviously is "A," and what that stands for is the assessment process. We assess where people are; where they want to go; what gaps exist between where they are and where they want to be; what resources are necessary in order for them to deploy, utilize or access help to get them there; what things may exist in terms of gaps, resources, expertise, knowledge or information that needs to be sourced in order to help bridge that gap? That whole assessment phase is really something we work to get very, very clear about what it is that people want to do and the reasons why. The next element of that is the strategy setting. Once you're very clear about where you are and where you want to go and you know the gaps that exist, you know what resources you have and what resources you need; you have to implement a strategy. You have to figure out what strategy or strategies are best going to be suited to help you bridge those gaps and overcome those obstacles and move you from Point A to Point B. And once we do that, we start to define what those strategies are and how we can start to implement those. That's the "I" in ASIA, the implementation: The Jay Kinder Interview
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November, 2010
tactics, what actions, what activities, what things have to be done on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly basis or a continuous basis. This is to make sure that, that strategy is getting implemented and it's not just something that just turns out to be a plan. It's something that is actually occurring inside the business, outside the business or with the people that are interacting in the business. Or if you're working with an individual, what are the things that they need to be doing on a daily basis or a weekly basis to make sure they're achieving the goals that they want? Lastly there is the final "A" in the ASIA process. This is where most businesses get off course. They get off course in good times and they get off course in bad times because they don't have an adjustment strategy. If the plans you put in place or the actions that you're taking aren't giving you the results that you expect, what adjustments need to be made? The only way you know how to make those adjustments is if you have a good system of measurement, management and evaluation of what it is that you're doing and the results that you're getting. Now what I call them are KPIs, key performance indicators, what things are going on in the business or what things are going on in your life that say that you're getting the results that you want. The time to make the adjustment is not after the fact. It's not six months or two years down the road. You make those small adjustments on an ongoing basis so that you never get too far off course. If something changes in the competition, something changes in the economy, something changes in the environment, something changes inside your business or something changes inside of you; that you can make those small, subtle adjustments on a continuous basis that keep you on course. Jay:
Absolutely, the KPI. There are different, critical numbers that you need to be looking at depending on whether it's good times versus bad, and what your plan and your strategy is. It's the daily things that you do that get the results. We huddle with our real estate agents all the time in the office. We'll ask, "Okay, you're having a good month. You've got six or seven deals under contract. What was the procuring cause?" What we are told is, "I was consistent about three months ago at making my follow-up calls. I had them time blocked for every single day." All of a sudden
Jay Kinder Interview
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November, 2010
they have a great closing month, and then they quit doing the things that got them there, because the time span is long. They don't realize that the result is going to be that two or three months from now, they're going to have a really bad month, and they're not going to really know why that is. So the pattern in the real estate industry is really good month, really bad month, really good month, really bad month. But it's that daily KPI, as you said, that makes the difference between really fast, consistent growth and frustration. Spike: That's a great point, Jay. The analogy that I like to use when I explain it is the analogy of a rocket taking off. Say the trajectory of a rocket is off by simply a quarter of an inch. The further it goes towards Jupiter or some other planet, the further the degree of misalignment, the further off course it gets. And the longer you let it be off course, the harder it is to get it back on track because that gap between where you wish it to go and where you're actually heading becomes more pronounced. If you wait until three months or six months after the fact, and look back and say, "Okay, you know what? I've been off course here," you can't go back and recapture those three months or those six months. You can get back on track and start doing some of those things, but it's going to take you thirty or sixty or ninety days before you really start seeing the financial result. So the time to do that is on a daily, weekly or monthly basis. You need to look back and say, Okay, am I doing the things that are necessary for me to be successful on a consistent basis? Am I doing the things that I know are going to bring me the results that I want, that I need and that I deserve? That are going to give me the financial, personal and professional success that I deserve? Jay:
Absolutely. Let me ask you this question, looking back over some of the problems that I have had and some of our clients have had as they were growing their businesses. A lot of what we see is really rapid growth, and some of the challenges in managing that is determining, "Okay, this is eight dollar or ten dollar an hour work." They're stuck doing that, and they're not doing the things that we know that they need to be doing. How do you get someone to look at the thousand-foot view and tell them that they should put this on someone else's plate or maybe hire their first person. How do you walk someone through that, because I think that's a real hinge point for massive growth is to really start to learn that, Okay, I can't be doing these things because they're keeping me from doing the things where I get all
Jay Kinder Interview
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November, 2010
my traction. How do you walk someone through that process? What does that look like? Spike: Well, there are a couple of things that I use, Jay. Number one is getting people to understand the difference between time management and priority management. And the reality of it is, time management doesn't exist. People say, "Oh, I'm great at time management." No you're not, because you can't speed it up. You can't slow it down. The only thing you can do is really make choices about where you spend your time, where you spend your resources and where you focus your attention. It really comes down to establishing priorities. What I use is the "highest and best use" philosophy. Brian Tracy talks about it. There are a lot of performance coaches that talk about it. It really comes down to what is the thing or things that you can be doing on a daily basis or on a routine basis that are going to have the most significant impact on your business? What are the things that you do better than anyone else around you that are going to have the biggest impact on your business? And then finally, what are the things that you enjoy the most, love the most, that are going to give you the most passion, the most juice and the most enjoyment about what it is that you do in your business so you can stay energized, you can stay charged and you can stay fired up about what it is that you're doing? Anything else that you're doing is something that should either be partly allocated to someone else or should be delegated to someone else. That person could be internal, could be external, could be a vendor, could be someone that you bring in on a virtual basis or should be eliminated. Now if you're someone that says, "My goal is to make a million dollars a year, so therefore I have to making $150 or $200 dollars per hour given the number of hours I want to work," anything that you can outsource for less than that $150 or $200 an hour should be seriously considered for outsourcing. Now a lot of people say, "You know what? I'm a one-man person or I'm a onewoman person and I don't have the resources necessary for me to go out and hire somebody to do that." Well I can also share with you that if you continue to work for $8.00 dollar an hour, you're never going to get to the stuff that pays you $150 or $200 dollars an hour. So maybe you partner with someone. Maybe you bring someone in where they trade some of your talent and some of your expertise with some of theirs.
Jay Kinder Interview
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November, 2010
Maybe what you do is share that resource with someone else if you don't need it on a full-time or an ongoing basis. The key is to be very clear about what it is that's most important to you in your business; what it is that you do that's going to get you closer to that goal; what it is that you do the best that's going to have the highest impact on your business and what it is that's going to give you the most juice and the most jazz about what it is that you do. Because if you're continually worn down by having to do the mundane things that either really depress you or just wear you down from an energy standpoint, you're not going to have the jazz or the enthusiasm or the energy necessary when it comes time to do the things that are really going to be important for your business. When I sit down with an executive or business owner, I say, "The first thing we're going to do is go through every single thing that you do on a daily basis." We look at the routine things, we look at the interrupted things. We look at the things that they do sporadically. We look at the things that they do periodically. Then we ask, "What is the purpose behind each one of these activities?" Because in some cases, there are activities that can be eliminated. Now I will tell you that when you do that exercise, at first, it exacerbates the problem because it means you have to create more time in order to be able to do that, but it's a worthwhile investment. And if you're able to look at everything that you're doing and figure out what's unnecessary, what's redundant, what is it that becomes interruptive, and you can eliminate those things; now you start to free up productive time that can be allocated towards the things that you do best, the things that are going to have the most impact on your business. Jay:
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. These are all things that are critical and that have helped us in growing and managing our real estate businesses. Spike, I really appreciate you being on the call. You have consulted with many different industries and worked with companies from the Fortune 500 on down to smaller and midsized companies. What other nuggets could you give to the real estate agents and brokers that are listening to this call on how to really take their business to the next level?
Spike: The final point I would make, Jay, is something that I have seen over and over again because of the number of industries and geographies I've worked in. I've worked in about twenty-five different countries.
Jay Kinder Interview
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November, 2010
When I talk to people in an industry or I talk to them in a market or I talk to people in a company, usually one of the first things that I hear is, "You know what? Our business is different. Our industry is different. Our geography is different. Our economy is different. Our competition is different." And you know what? The bottom line is, they are. But I would say this. If you’re in the real estate industry or any other industry and you want to get better at something, you want to optimize something, you want to take what you're already doing and you want to make it a bit better; look inside your industry. Figure out who's doing something a little bit different that you could be doing the same way. You will get better. The bottom line is that's where best practices come from. You look at what other people are doing in your industry and you figure out the best way to adopt that or adapt that into your business, and that's going to help you from an optimization standpoint. But if you truly want to transform your business, look outside your industry. And if you look at where innovation comes from, generally innovation comes from looking at something that's being done in another industry, in another market, another country or at another time even, and being able to take that and implement it inside your business or inside your industry, because optimization comes from looking outside your industry. Optimization comes from looking within. So I would make sure that you allocate a certain amount of time or a certain amount of your perspective looking not just at what other people are doing inside the real estate industry, but also look at what people are doing in other industries: From a service standpoint, from a marketing standpoint, from a positioning standpoint, from a value creation standpoint, because that's where real, true breakthroughs come from. And if you can discipline yourself to allocate a portion of your attention to that and say, "What is it that they're doing in another industry and why do they do it? What result does that give them? And how could I adapt that or how could I adopt that in my own business, in my own industry to create a breakthrough that no one else has," you can dominate a market, you can dominate an industry and you can dominate whatever it is that you do, regardless of what the economy is doing. Jay:
Absolutely. I love that. That's great, great stuff.
Jay Kinder Interview
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November, 2010
So Spike, I follow you on Facebook. I know you've got a Facebook fan page and a Twitter handle. What's the best way for anyone that may be interested in working with you to get in touch with you? Spike: Two things, Jay. Number one, my website is Spike, S-P-I-K-E, Humer, H-U-ME-R. That's one "M," not like Hummer. "ER," not like "OR," not like funny. SpikeHumer.com is my website. Or you can reach me at my personal email address which is spikehumer (one word, no space, no dot) at gmail.com. Jay:
Well, I appreciate you sharing your time with us. I'll be following your tweets and following you on Facebook. I look forward to working with you in the future. Please keep changing people's lives around the world. You're doing a great job, and we really appreciate you taking the time for this interview today.
Spike: Well, I appreciate the opportunity, Jay. You're a great friend and a great man. I appreciate you, buddy. Jay:
All right, man, have a great day.
Spike: Thanks, you too. [End of interview]
Jay Kinder Interview
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November, 2010
Jay Kinder With Spike Humer
Jay Kinder Interview
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November, 2010
Jay:
Welcome, Kinder Reese Inner Circle members, friends and family alike. We have a super special call today. This is a Rock Star interview, as we like to call it, and this time we are really outdoing ourselves. We're talking today with Spike Humer of SpikeHumer.com. Spike is a performance enhancement and management expert. Spike, you are one of the most respected people in business today. I had the privilege of meeting you when my business partner, John Kitchens, and I flew to an event that you were co-presenting with Jay Abraham. I know you've done a lot of work with Jay. It was an amazing event. I had a great time and learned an immense amount. Could you explain a little more about your position and what it is you do for big companies?
Spike: What I do Jay, in a nutshell, is help people get very, very clear about what it is they want to do both in life and business. I help people formulate what would be the most effective strategies to get them from where they are to where they want to go. I then help them implement the tactics, resources and skill sets that are necessary to make sure that they not only get on track, but they stay on track along the way. Jay:
I really appreciate your time and willingness to do this interview, Spike. One of the things Mike and I did at Kinder Reese, in order to make a giant gain in our real estate businesses, was to look outside of our own industry to see what other businesses were doing: How they were strategically positioning themselves, how they attacked large growth and how they changed along with the market. We learned an amazing amount from you that enabled us to do this. You and I have talked offline about this. How do you reset and reposition your business for massive growth in times like today?
Spike: That's a great question, Jay. I would say there is a couple of things. The first thing is to recognize that change affects and exists in every business and exists in every person's life. This really comes down to a question of whether it's forced change or whether it's planned change. A lot of my background has been in working with organizations in turnaround situations. Someone will call me up in the middle of the night and say, "Holy crap, I can't make payroll." They are really facing a point of desperation and demise.
Jay Kinder Interview
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What I've done for the better part of the last ten years has been to work with companies and individuals to teach them not to wait until they're being forced to change, but rather help them find a point where they can change. Now, I recognize the challenges that are going on in the real estate industry, but I would also share with you that many businesses in many industries are facing similar challenges. Yet there is a model, a path and a process that, regardless of the business, industry or situation being faced, can help them get from where they are to where they want to go. Jay:
Absolutely. There are a lot of winners in the Kinder Reese program that are modeling some of the things that we've done to be successful. What about opportunity? This kind of real estate market really weeds out the weak and puts opportunity into perspective. How do you sniff out the opportunities for business at a time like this?
Spike: Well, I think there are two key elements, Jay. Number one is to understand that regardless of how tough the economy is or how tough an industry is, there is still business being done. It's a question of how much of that business are you able to capture? How much business are you able to maintain in times of turmoil or times of transition? The key element in that, which you mentioned, is that there are people that have a winning mindset. There are people that have winning strategies that allow them to be successful as the weak get weeded out. Most importantly, the key during a tough economy or a tough situation or a competitive economy is being able to stand up, stand out and get the attention of people in such a way that they see you as a unique solution. They see the value that you bring as different from anyone, including your major competitors. What is the value proposition? What is the value experience? What is the component of trust or components of credibility that you bring to the marketplace, that you bring to that relationship, that you bring to that transaction that your competitors don't? The more clearly you can articulate that, the more clearly you can position that and the more clearly you can demonstrate that; the more successful you can be in any economy or any industry regardless of the situation or condition. Jay:
Okay, you've got me fired up now. We've been having this discussion concerning all of our real estate businesses, not only for Kinder Reese but also for our clients.
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I'd like to get your take on this and how it applies. We did some research on our marketing. We always had a USP based around a guaranteed sale, and that worked very well over the years for us. We recently have been looking at changing things up a little. If you're a homeowner looking to sell your house, there's only three basic things that you look for. You want to sell fast for the most money and without a bunch of problems along the way. Every real estate agent makes that promise in one way or another. It's been a real challenge to articulate that value in your message and everything you do and, as you said, stand up and stand out. So we did some research using both Amazon searches and Google keywords. We searched for phrases like "sell your home fast" or keywords like "sell your home fast" versus "sell your home for the most money". What we found was a much, much larger number of people today are searching "sell your home fast (now, today)" versus searching for ways to sell their home, prepare it for the market and sell it for the most money. So we're trying to craft a way to position our businesses [with a message] that resonates with what people are looking for today. What other kinds of elements would you look for to determine what to focus on to craft the message that will resonate with your marketplace? Spike: Well, I'll answer your question in just a second, Jay. I want to back up, if you wouldn't mind, for just a moment. I'm going to make a distinction here that I think will not only change the perspective of many of your listeners, but in some cases transform their business and their approach to business. The term "unique selling proposition" goes back to 1961 when Rosser Reeves wrote the book Reality in Advertising. It was a great term, and I think it's a great peg for people to position what it is that they do. However, I think it's an obsolete term, and let me tell you the reason why. I use the term "unique value proposition" and I coined it probably seven or eight years ago, because I make a strong distinction between marketing and selling. I think most businesses don't understand the real distinction between the two, and I'll share with you a very simple way to make that distinction, and tie this into the question that you asked. The difference between marketing and selling is this. Most businesses— whether they are real estate businesses or mortgage businesses or large Jay Kinder Interview
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businesses—will combine the functions of sales and marketing. Well, first of all, they have it backwards. You can't sell until you market. Second of all, they're not the same thing. Marketing is about conveying value to the marketplace. Selling is about earning trust. Until trust exists a transaction can't take place, and until trust exists a relationship can't develop. So one of the things I would share from a value standpoint—and I commend you for being able to see this—is that most businesses miss that. I think it really comes down to this. If people today were more concerned about selling their home quickly as opposed to selling it for the most money, then their value has changed. So the value proposition that you offer to people and the way you articulate it and the way you position it is distinctly different than when the market is rising, home properties are going up and people are looking to get the most money possible. Understand that when you're selling something, you're not only conveying value through your marketing, but you're conveying the trust that allows that relationship to take place so that the transaction can ultimately take place. Now whether you say it in a sentence; whether you say it in two paragraphs; whether you demonstrate it through your testimonials, endorsements or whatever, if the market really is asking for that, you have to be able to convey that through your unique value proposition. Now how you do it in terms of how you say it really comes down to your core values and what it is that allows you to stand out from your competition. The vast majority of other agents or brokers may not be doing that, but there will be some; so if you start doing it and it starts working, people will start to emulate and imitate that. What you have to be able to do is to take not only that value of helping people sell their home fast, but demonstrate it and back it up with a point of credibility that allows that trust to take place so the transaction can take place; not just with anyone, but with you. Jay:
Gotcha. Okay, that was a lot but I'm taking notes as we go, as I always do. I'm always learning. You said something in terms of the value, then the selling, then the relationship. And you related the value to the marketing, the marketing to value, and then the selling to building trust.
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Talk to me about that part of it, because when it comes down to marketing, they're spending money on postcards and billboards. There are different marketing pillars that we have. How do you build the trust in the selling process? Explain to me that part of it. How you build trust? Spike: Well, it really does start with the marketing end of it, Jay. The bottom line is the more value you can convey, and the more value you can convey on a credible basis, the easier it is for people to gain trust. That's why celebrity endorsements, testimonials, recommendations and those types of things are so very, very powerful. The biggest thing is it comes down to consistency and congruency. If what you say is what you do, it's much easier to get that trust. If what you're saying is not what you do, there's an incongruity and a disconnect which actually breaks the bond of trust. So the very first thing that I would say is that you set the buying criteria, or the experience criteria, or the value criteria in terms of what it is you do, how you do it, when you do it, where you do it, for whom you do it, and what happens if you don’t do it. It's those components that hold people back. It's not just about visibility. It's not just about putting your name on a billboard or putting a business card out there. If that were the case, the person that had the biggest billboard or the most billboards would be the person that got the most business. There's a difference between having the greatest level of recognition versus having the greatest level of relationship and the greatest level of transaction. You need to be very consistent about what it is that you do, and what it is that people can expect if they do business with you that's going to make that experience or that transaction or that relationship not only unique, but also consistent with what it is that they're looking for, what it is that you're saying you're going to give them, and what it is that they can come to expect that will satisfy their needs and their values in a way that they can trust and they can confidently believe that it's going to happen not one time, but every single time. Often people in the real estate industry will tell me, "You know what? It really is a one-time transaction." Well, in many cases it's not. I know that when I've bought homes, I've bought more than one home from a real estate agent. But more importantly, when I bought a home my friends said, "Oh, I love your home. It's great that you bought this. And who did you use? I'm looking for a real estate agent."
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So in many cases that relationship that you're building is not just a one-time transaction. That consistency and congruency becomes even more pronounced, even more important when times are uncertain or times are tough, because getting referrals or being able to stand out in a very favorable and positive way in the minds of your prospects and your clients and the people that you do business with is even more important today. Consistency and congruency are elements that convey that what you say you're going to do is what you actually do, and that you are able to create that commitment up-front to an experience that people can expect and will ultimately realize when they do a transaction with you. Jay:
That is huge, and I want to point out a chink in the armor of the real estate industry which relates to many of us on this call. What you're saying has really resonated with me, so I'm going to reveal a fault at this point. We've been running the Guaranteed Sale Program for a long time, and the reason it works well is based on the principles that you just walked us through. It resonates with the value that they want to experience. They want their home guaranteed to sell. The reality of the Guaranteed Sale Program, at least with most real estate agents, is it is guaranteed to be sold or you'll buy it. That's a program that’s run, but it's not actually the experience everyone gets that chooses to do business with you. When you're talking to someone who may have done business with you, they're not resonating with your value proposition because they actually didn't even participate in the Guaranteed Sale Program. There is that disconnect that you talked about. This is what sparked our research effort to try and figure out a better way to position our company so we can execute and deliver value with a proven and repeatable system that resonates what it is they want to experience. That way we don't miss out on that trust. I bring that up because that's where we're looking to get better, and that's a huge help. It is important to the lifetime value of your clients, the repeat business and the referral business that's potentially out there.
Spike: Absolutely, Jay. It's funny because I mentioned that I coined the term "unique value proposition," but I actually started elevating it from "unique selling proposition" to "unique value proposition" about ten years ago.
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In my programs of late I've actually taken it to an even different level. It's now a "unique experience proposition" because it's not just about the value. It's about the experience that people have when they engage you or they work with you whether or not it involves a transaction. If you can create a unique experience where people can come and feel confident and comfortable and have that level of trust; even if they don't buy or even if they don't list their house with you, they still walk away with a unique experience that your competitors and, in most cases, no one else around you can emulate or duplicate or in most cases imitate. Jay:
Absolutely. I love that. If you don't mind, I'll put a TM next to that for Spike, but I'm going to use that. It is about the experience. The real estate industry is, unfortunately, broken. There's no brand loyalty because companies aren't managing the consumer's experience. The broker allows us, as agents, to come in and work but no one manages the actual process that goes on and makes sure that it's the same every time. The loyalty to brands in this industry is little to none. It's left up to us, as real estate agents, to perfect these systems and put them in place so you can really harness the long-term benefits of your clients coming back and having experiences that they go tell their friends about.
Spike: Yes, absolutely, Jay, and I think especially in the real estate industry. There are other industries that I've worked with and done training in that are similar. What happens with many industries when competition becomes very tough is they become commoditized, where basically people are just looking for the lowest price or the fastest transaction or the most seamless experience they possibly can have. And while that's certainly in the favor of the consumer, the person who is hiring or buying the service or product; it's certainly not in the interest of the business owner or service provider. So one of the things that I think is absolutely vital for businesses when they become affected by pricing and almost become commoditized is being able to stand out and convey to people that this isn't just about the dollars and cents. This isn't just about speed or time. This is about satisfying their needs and their values, and I'll give you an example. When I work with a client, one of the first things that I do is ask, "What is it that you are trying to accomplish through this interaction, through this relationship or
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through this engagement?" And they'll tell me. And I'll ask the question, "Why is that important to you?" I think the reason that it may be important to them may not necessarily be the real reason that's important to them; and the better I know that, the better I understand that, the better I'm able to articulate everything that I'm doing and the reasons why I'm doing it through the value filter that they perceive that is important to them. It enhances not only the result, but it enhances the perceived value and the realized value of what it is that they're getting through that transaction, through that relationship. It's appealing to their personal values and the reasons why they're trying to accomplish what it is that they're trying to accomplish. Jay:
We have talked a bit offline about the model that you take someone through in order to really assess and determine what are those steps they want to take. How would you start that process? Can you walk us through that a little bit?
Spike: When I work with a business, Jay; it matters not whether it's a large business, small business or a sole proprietor. It could even be working with someone on a personal performance basis. I use a model called ASIA, and it's actually a trademark model that I put together about seven or eight years ago. And it's not for the continent of Asia. It actually is an acronym for a four-stage process that I go through. The first letter in ASIA obviously is "A," and what that stands for is the assessment process. We assess where people are; where they want to go; what gaps exist between where they are and where they want to be; what resources are necessary in order for them to deploy, utilize or access help to get them there; what things may exist in terms of gaps, resources, expertise, knowledge or information that needs to be sourced in order to help bridge that gap? That whole assessment phase is really something we work to get very, very clear about what it is that people want to do and the reasons why. The next element of that is the strategy setting. Once you're very clear about where you are and where you want to go and you know the gaps that exist, you know what resources you have and what resources you need; you have to implement a strategy. You have to figure out what strategy or strategies are best going to be suited to help you bridge those gaps and overcome those obstacles and move you from Point A to Point B. And once we do that, we start to define what those strategies are and how we can start to implement those. That's the "I" in ASIA, the implementation: The Jay Kinder Interview
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tactics, what actions, what activities, what things have to be done on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly basis or a continuous basis. This is to make sure that, that strategy is getting implemented and it's not just something that just turns out to be a plan. It's something that is actually occurring inside the business, outside the business or with the people that are interacting in the business. Or if you're working with an individual, what are the things that they need to be doing on a daily basis or a weekly basis to make sure they're achieving the goals that they want? Lastly there is the final "A" in the ASIA process. This is where most businesses get off course. They get off course in good times and they get off course in bad times because they don't have an adjustment strategy. If the plans you put in place or the actions that you're taking aren't giving you the results that you expect, what adjustments need to be made? The only way you know how to make those adjustments is if you have a good system of measurement, management and evaluation of what it is that you're doing and the results that you're getting. Now what I call them are KPIs, key performance indicators, what things are going on in the business or what things are going on in your life that say that you're getting the results that you want. The time to make the adjustment is not after the fact. It's not six months or two years down the road. You make those small adjustments on an ongoing basis so that you never get too far off course. If something changes in the competition, something changes in the economy, something changes in the environment, something changes inside your business or something changes inside of you; that you can make those small, subtle adjustments on a continuous basis that keep you on course. Jay:
Absolutely, the KPI. There are different, critical numbers that you need to be looking at depending on whether it's good times versus bad, and what your plan and your strategy is. It's the daily things that you do that get the results. We huddle with our real estate agents all the time in the office. We'll ask, "Okay, you're having a good month. You've got six or seven deals under contract. What was the procuring cause?" What we are told is, "I was consistent about three months ago at making my follow-up calls. I had them time blocked for every single day." All of a sudden
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they have a great closing month, and then they quit doing the things that got them there, because the time span is long. They don't realize that the result is going to be that two or three months from now, they're going to have a really bad month, and they're not going to really know why that is. So the pattern in the real estate industry is really good month, really bad month, really good month, really bad month. But it's that daily KPI, as you said, that makes the difference between really fast, consistent growth and frustration. Spike: That's a great point, Jay. The analogy that I like to use when I explain it is the analogy of a rocket taking off. Say the trajectory of a rocket is off by simply a quarter of an inch. The further it goes towards Jupiter or some other planet, the further the degree of misalignment, the further off course it gets. And the longer you let it be off course, the harder it is to get it back on track because that gap between where you wish it to go and where you're actually heading becomes more pronounced. If you wait until three months or six months after the fact, and look back and say, "Okay, you know what? I've been off course here," you can't go back and recapture those three months or those six months. You can get back on track and start doing some of those things, but it's going to take you thirty or sixty or ninety days before you really start seeing the financial result. So the time to do that is on a daily, weekly or monthly basis. You need to look back and say, Okay, am I doing the things that are necessary for me to be successful on a consistent basis? Am I doing the things that I know are going to bring me the results that I want, that I need and that I deserve? That are going to give me the financial, personal and professional success that I deserve? Jay:
Absolutely. Let me ask you this question, looking back over some of the problems that I have had and some of our clients have had as they were growing their businesses. A lot of what we see is really rapid growth, and some of the challenges in managing that is determining, "Okay, this is eight dollar or ten dollar an hour work." They're stuck doing that, and they're not doing the things that we know that they need to be doing. How do you get someone to look at the thousand-foot view and tell them that they should put this on someone else's plate or maybe hire their first person. How do you walk someone through that, because I think that's a real hinge point for massive growth is to really start to learn that, Okay, I can't be doing these things because they're keeping me from doing the things where I get all
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my traction. How do you walk someone through that process? What does that look like? Spike: Well, there are a couple of things that I use, Jay. Number one is getting people to understand the difference between time management and priority management. And the reality of it is, time management doesn't exist. People say, "Oh, I'm great at time management." No you're not, because you can't speed it up. You can't slow it down. The only thing you can do is really make choices about where you spend your time, where you spend your resources and where you focus your attention. It really comes down to establishing priorities. What I use is the "highest and best use" philosophy. Brian Tracy talks about it. There are a lot of performance coaches that talk about it. It really comes down to what is the thing or things that you can be doing on a daily basis or on a routine basis that are going to have the most significant impact on your business? What are the things that you do better than anyone else around you that are going to have the biggest impact on your business? And then finally, what are the things that you enjoy the most, love the most, that are going to give you the most passion, the most juice and the most enjoyment about what it is that you do in your business so you can stay energized, you can stay charged and you can stay fired up about what it is that you're doing? Anything else that you're doing is something that should either be partly allocated to someone else or should be delegated to someone else. That person could be internal, could be external, could be a vendor, could be someone that you bring in on a virtual basis or should be eliminated. Now if you're someone that says, "My goal is to make a million dollars a year, so therefore I have to making $150 or $200 dollars per hour given the number of hours I want to work," anything that you can outsource for less than that $150 or $200 an hour should be seriously considered for outsourcing. Now a lot of people say, "You know what? I'm a one-man person or I'm a onewoman person and I don't have the resources necessary for me to go out and hire somebody to do that." Well I can also share with you that if you continue to work for $8.00 dollar an hour, you're never going to get to the stuff that pays you $150 or $200 dollars an hour. So maybe you partner with someone. Maybe you bring someone in where they trade some of your talent and some of your expertise with some of theirs.
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Maybe what you do is share that resource with someone else if you don't need it on a full-time or an ongoing basis. The key is to be very clear about what it is that's most important to you in your business; what it is that you do that's going to get you closer to that goal; what it is that you do the best that's going to have the highest impact on your business and what it is that's going to give you the most juice and the most jazz about what it is that you do. Because if you're continually worn down by having to do the mundane things that either really depress you or just wear you down from an energy standpoint, you're not going to have the jazz or the enthusiasm or the energy necessary when it comes time to do the things that are really going to be important for your business. When I sit down with an executive or business owner, I say, "The first thing we're going to do is go through every single thing that you do on a daily basis." We look at the routine things, we look at the interrupted things. We look at the things that they do sporadically. We look at the things that they do periodically. Then we ask, "What is the purpose behind each one of these activities?" Because in some cases, there are activities that can be eliminated. Now I will tell you that when you do that exercise, at first, it exacerbates the problem because it means you have to create more time in order to be able to do that, but it's a worthwhile investment. And if you're able to look at everything that you're doing and figure out what's unnecessary, what's redundant, what is it that becomes interruptive, and you can eliminate those things; now you start to free up productive time that can be allocated towards the things that you do best, the things that are going to have the most impact on your business. Jay:
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. These are all things that are critical and that have helped us in growing and managing our real estate businesses. Spike, I really appreciate you being on the call. You have consulted with many different industries and worked with companies from the Fortune 500 on down to smaller and midsized companies. What other nuggets could you give to the real estate agents and brokers that are listening to this call on how to really take their business to the next level?
Spike: The final point I would make, Jay, is something that I have seen over and over again because of the number of industries and geographies I've worked in. I've worked in about twenty-five different countries.
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When I talk to people in an industry or I talk to them in a market or I talk to people in a company, usually one of the first things that I hear is, "You know what? Our business is different. Our industry is different. Our geography is different. Our economy is different. Our competition is different." And you know what? The bottom line is, they are. But I would say this. If you’re in the real estate industry or any other industry and you want to get better at something, you want to optimize something, you want to take what you're already doing and you want to make it a bit better; look inside your industry. Figure out who's doing something a little bit different that you could be doing the same way. You will get better. The bottom line is that's where best practices come from. You look at what other people are doing in your industry and you figure out the best way to adopt that or adapt that into your business, and that's going to help you from an optimization standpoint. But if you truly want to transform your business, look outside your industry. And if you look at where innovation comes from, generally innovation comes from looking at something that's being done in another industry, in another market, another country or at another time even, and being able to take that and implement it inside your business or inside your industry, because optimization comes from looking outside your industry. Optimization comes from looking within. So I would make sure that you allocate a certain amount of time or a certain amount of your perspective looking not just at what other people are doing inside the real estate industry, but also look at what people are doing in other industries: From a service standpoint, from a marketing standpoint, from a positioning standpoint, from a value creation standpoint, because that's where real, true breakthroughs come from. And if you can discipline yourself to allocate a portion of your attention to that and say, "What is it that they're doing in another industry and why do they do it? What result does that give them? And how could I adapt that or how could I adopt that in my own business, in my own industry to create a breakthrough that no one else has," you can dominate a market, you can dominate an industry and you can dominate whatever it is that you do, regardless of what the economy is doing. Jay:
Absolutely. I love that. That's great, great stuff.
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So Spike, I follow you on Facebook. I know you've got a Facebook fan page and a Twitter handle. What's the best way for anyone that may be interested in working with you to get in touch with you? Spike: Two things, Jay. Number one, my website is Spike, S-P-I-K-E, Humer, H-U-ME-R. That's one "M," not like Hummer. "ER," not like "OR," not like funny. SpikeHumer.com is my website. Or you can reach me at my personal email address which is spikehumer (one word, no space, no dot) at gmail.com. Jay:
Well, I appreciate you sharing your time with us. I'll be following your tweets and following you on Facebook. I look forward to working with you in the future. Please keep changing people's lives around the world. You're doing a great job, and we really appreciate you taking the time for this interview today.
Spike: Well, I appreciate the opportunity, Jay. You're a great friend and a great man. I appreciate you, buddy. Jay:
All right, man, have a great day.
Spike: Thanks, you too. [End of interview]
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