the multiplier effect: t inside our schools multiplier effect ...
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS Liz: Things that used to be attendance showing now one man show. And fully got the one man working really hard but at jobs you know being made or abandoned everywhere. But are recording are we good? Nic: Yeah we are good to go now. So Hi and welcome to Influence Faculty my name is Dr Nic Lucas and I have with me on interview today Liz Wiseman who is renowned for many things. One of them is a book called Multipliers. And I would just say, good morning to yo you u Liz how you going? Liz: Great great good morning to you it’s Saturday morning for you and Friday for me. So I’m ending the day you’re beginning the day. Nic: Well see what a great way to win the week for you then its Friday,, having a chat to someone overr the phone as they say. So look what I wanted to do was let people know that again the reason we do these interviews is I’m fascinated to find out from other people who are influential like yourself. How you go about being influential in your life? And your our key area of study has bee been around leadership and that led d to the book Multipliers. And I just wonder if you could give us a brief background of your life in terms of how it led you to writing Multipliers and then what you’re actually doing now with you your business. Liz: Yeah sure you know I think when I graduated from school I guess I’ve always been a good student. I don’t necessarily mean than from you know not necessarily the best academic but I’ve always loved school, loved learning. After graduate sch school I joined a full company called Oracle and I just landed in this stew of incredibly smart interesting people. And I just became a student and loved learning as in people around me. I really truly felt like everyday it was an honor to come to work and jjust ust be around people who are so brilliant. And I had days when I’m like wow II'm definitely not the smartest one here and I just might be the dumbest.. But I work around smart people so I’m the luckiest person here. And I’ve guess I’ve always I felt that way until when I started working for this company and I watched all of these really smart people. And I got put into the management really really young that was about a year out of graduate school 24 years old. And II've been teaching as a technical instructor and they sort of tapp tapped me on the shoulder and said, we want you to run our training group. And you know a month later I got the direction in field work in a university and I was 24 years old and you know I have done one nothing like that and really have no business doing that but it was just an incredible opportunity. I’ve ve just to get sort of shoved in the management and build this knowledge center and this university for the company. So all that is to say I got to work ork around a lot of really smart executives and to study them you know to sort of being a student of leadership and I was a leader myself. But maybe because I was so junior, I just watched and observed and I noticed that not all of th these e really smart executives tives created smart and intelligent around them. A lot of them seemed to sort of suck intelligence out of that room. They’re need to be smart - shutdown smart around them and other leaders you know were also brilliant. But they had a different effect on p people eople they had this you know where I came to call a multiplier effect that people got smarter and more capable around them. And I just I watched my www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
1
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
colleagues around these different kinds of leaders and I thought you know there’s there’ really something up here. And you know I left Oracle after 17 years of working there it was great experience and I start doing coaching. I coached a lot of other executives and I could see again why is it that sometimes these executives are smart but no one else get gets to be smart. And what really mean a smart organization is not just smart leaders and that’s what led me to do this study. And kind of uncover you know why is it that some leaders need to amplify intelligence. Nic: And so is that what you still doing, you still mostly have a consulting and coaching organization speaking? Liz: We have a firm called The Wiseman Group and you know what we do kind of simply put as we help develop the kind of leadership and we need to tackle tough problems. And you know Multipliers liers is a piece of that. How d do you lead in a way that you get full access to the intelligence inside your organization? Because you know our belief is that our toughest problems can be solved by using the intelligence that sits within. And we’ve spent a lot of time doing that in businesses and we’re now doing that for new schools and I don’t know that this is quiet as pronounced in Australia as it is in US but this is probably as a nation the challenge of this decade is how do we think and revitalize education. You know how do we solve problems at the education system wasn’t built for and how do we invent that? And the belief is that the intelligence to do that sits inside of our schools that does not a matter of policy makers and experts that are educato educators and our staff know how to solve those problems and we need leadership that will allow us to do that. So that’ss what we do. As a firm we you know we te teach, ch, we consult, we coach and help organizations build that kind of leadership. For me honestly honestly, I spend most of my time researching, writing, speaking and I do a small amount of executive coaching. Nic: So and it’s all still around this all area that you’ve really been in since you first started working in Oracle. And so what is it that really keep keeps s you in this? What is it that when you get out of the day and you go into your day that really keeps you passionate and keeps you drawing forward? Liz: Well you know I think I’m just I’m a part of a curious researcher. And you know if someone I’m working on my third book now which is a totally different topic and if someone tried to connect all the dots and say you know what’s that common denominator between what you work on and what you research right about the answer is stuff that interesting. You know things that are interesting questions that I don’t have the answers to that. I’m curious about like I just want to know it because sometimes it ttakes akes me years to kind of keep peeling ling this back and tried to figure out what’s going on and what’s driving you know as a way we lead. And how do we utilize intelligen intelligence inside of our organizations. s. So it’s not like I do any kind of market assessment you know what are hot topics, what’s an interest to the market. You know for me to pursue something is deeply as I ttry ry to presume I have to be really crazy interested sort of ferociously hungry to know something. So that’s what tends to drive me it’s just a hunger to wanna learn about it and then once I learn about it, it chance to teach other people what we have found out. Nic: And so in that regard then what would you say looking back over your career that your biggest contribution to this field is? www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
2
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
Liz: Well you know it’s so funny that you ask that because it was maybe about 6 months after the Multipliers book came out. A colleague just casually said to me he said it must be a really good to have made such a contribution to your profession. And honestly Nic it had not occurred to me that I have made a contribution to my profession. And that wasn’t really what drove me. I mean what drove me was just this hunger to find out and to share what I had learned but then I step back and said, 'II really do feel like that body of work has made a contribution.' Because essentially what we put out there is a model of leadership that t we think it’s going to help us tackle really really big hard problems and to help the industry and the profession move away from a model of leadership where you know the leaders job is to know, to tell to act. And you know shifting to model where the leader is to access access, unleash,, to harness intelligence on o other people. When hen I finished up the research I gave a call to one of my mentors. Some of them are deeply influenced me Dr Steve K. Prahalada Prahalada. He passed a couple of years ago. At the University of Michigan he is really influential, business mentor mentor. And I shared with him this research I’ve nervous would it be adequate would it be rigorous enough and seeking response post you know well this is such an important idea because the criticall skill of this essentially is not what you know it how quickly you can tap into and access what the people around you know. You know I think that was seek his observation of this work that help me see that we really are looking at a fundamentally differe different nt model of leadership. And last week I had an opportunity to go out to Korea where just on Monday of this week, South Korea has just inaugurated their first female President. And with you know President Parks as sort of new administration and their economy econo has been rapid growth through slowing a little bit. You know their stepping back to look at what their agenda previous administration should be and what the South really need to do to continue to grow and be vibrant. And they asked me to come out and jo join in them in this conference they called New Leadership Great Korea. Because they’re grappling what kind of leadership do we need in the future? You know in this very hierarchical culture is trying to understand how do we move away from this notion that you know the leaders sit at the top of the pyramid and they’re to be revered and respected and never questioned. And to see this that was a conference nce of the top CEO’s across Korea to see these CEO’s trying to understand what kind of leadership do they need to grow. What kind of leadership do they need to be this new generation of young people who expect very very different models of leadership? And so it’s fun to be able to contribute to that and to help a nation shape it’s political and business and leadership agenda. So that’s been it’s been fun to see the ideas kind of spread to different parts of the world. Nic: Well talking about spread then because spread happens is another way to say word of mouth and also you have growing in recognition around your expertise here. So I mean when people come to you and they ask for your advice or ask you to be involved as in the conference you’ve just described. bed. Why is it, what are people talking about you? What are they saying, they're gossiping about you? What’s the word of mouth on Liz Wiseman and why you would be the kind of person that would be out to help them? mouth, I had to say honestly what they expected of me Liz: Well I don’t know with the word of mo and my expertise was not really what I thought like I could deliver I got one over there. And A they’re asking me to contribute you know what should the administration the new government agenda before creating ing social welfare and bouncing economic growth versus social welfare.
www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
3
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
And I keep saying this is so part my area of expertise. You know I really studied leadership. I study it in business and in education and you know. So I was asked to comment on what’s going g on in North Korea and economic development in North Korea. So that was a little outside my area of expertise. But you know I think people look to me because I have deeply studied leadership and intelligence and you know it’s probably one of the typic typical al issues of our time as we’re moving into in more of a knowledge industries. So you know I think there’s something in the research and the content but I think there’s also something in the energy. Maybe it’s best that I just put up it xanga last a couple of days ago and it would have been in internet company and really interesting and successful company and premier -------- they said something like we like Liz’s content and we like her energy. And I think maybe that’s it, I think you know kind of to a question of ask me why have I’ve been influential? Maybe because I’m willing to sort of tell it like it is but in a way that’s fun and funny and easy. One of the very first executive that I coached and we are worki working on kind of what his strengths were his native genius. And you know that’s just thing he does easily and freely and got done with this process and he an aboriginal I know what your genius is. What’s that thing you do and I’m like oh you know know, you tell . And he goes you have this ability to tell people the truth but do it in a way that they can hear it. And I think that is something that has allowed to be influential is being a truth teller and being direct and but also I don’t know if it’s gentle or you know in a way that it’s jus just easy to learn easy to absorb. I don’t know making sometimes a hard news easy to hear. Nic: Well I mean this would be a trait of a multiplier, correct as well. Liz: Well maybe but I have as many natural traits of diminishers I just have to fight them off. But you know well Liz are you more of a multiplier or diminisher? You know being the opposite of these leaders who is sort of being amplify intelligence. Even my responses is it takes one to no one. I think I’m a natural multiplier iplier that I could see this dynamic and I could put a name to it. Because I could see these leaders who had this effects and I think I had enough that in me that I could recognize it and knew what to ask for and to study it and describe it. But you know I’ve I got enough diminisher in me as well. You know I’ve got enough of the micro managing rapid responding you know know would all I have to watch for this I have to be careful. You know the path of this persistence for many people and certainly for me is to end up having a diminishing impact. You know sometimes without ev even knowing it. So I think it takes one to know one there too. And I can recognize how easy it is to have a diminishing impact because I’ve been there. I’ve spent years managing and managing large teams and large organizations. And I know I can recognize the bait and I’d taken it too many times myself. Nic: Well I mean the interesting thing there you just using those terms and you being to recognize those two categories is this simplicity of tthat as well. Because I’ve looked at a lot of different models in influence in behavior change and when you read the academic journals often all models are complex. And one of the things that appealed so much to me when I first heard you present this and I’m gonna read your book was even though I like detail. And I think we all have an ego around how much detail we can handle sometimes I really really appreciate the ssimplicity implicity of it so much though that as you know my son who was seven at that time, he asked sked me what I was reading and I explained it to him and he immediately recognized that his soccer coach had the characteristics of a multiplier.
www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
4
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
And that the standing coach oach he had on the weekend had the characteristics of a diminisher. So it was a concept that was incredibly easy for him to grasp. And to be honest for the last few years he has consistently used those terms around his own behavior and around seeing behavior behavi in other people as well. So that’s for me the beauty of it is its simple enough yet profound enough to really have a difference. Because people of all ages can get an idea of it and I guess that’s leads me to my question then this new book that you’re bringing out is a book that’s aimed at more at education. Can you tell us a bit about that and again why you think it’s so important, it been important enough for you to lend your mind and energy to over the last few years for education? Liz: Well sure now it is what I strive to do is take the simple idea not over complicate it. And you know to that point when I was writing the book my publisher Harper said, Liz write me a simple book like don’t fancy it out don’t you know fancy up the vocabulary. Use simple le words and just keep it simple. And I’m writing notes to myself and like good because I don’t actually know any fancy words. Like I didn’t have to dumb down this I just trying to describe the dynamic and that I think hink is what we have seen is that ideas do resonate. And you know did not surprise me that ideas resonated in this in technology. You know I come out of a tech world during Silicon Valley. What we found is that the ideas have resonated in places, in industries and companies and parts of the world that have four common factors. I think it was probably sitting on an airplane one day and as I wondering why am I coming back in the Middle East. And why am I teaching at the naval academy I know nothing about the military? Why am I being asked to go in and nd teach in places where I know nothing? And I realize that the ideas for me have the biggest impact in places where there was one growth agenda. If you you're trying to manage growth or return to growth were two there’s a resource shortage either born out of value. Austere times economically or a resource shortage drive from a talent shortage. So we just don’t have people with this skill around the world. The third is where there is connecting emerging sense that the current models of leadership are not working, they’re not sufficient. And then last thing quite often where there is a growth agenda I’m sorry where there is an innovation agenda. Is if you look at this things and you find that it’ it’s s relevant in the military. It’s relevant in South Korea. It’ss relevant in the Middle East. It’s relevant with tech companies but maybe it’s relevant in health care. We were dealing with you know some of our biggest challenges is you know how do we keep doing them more with fewer resources. And were this seems really ly come together hard is in education where the need for you know rethinking and reforming and transforming and revolutionizing and creating a modern education system but yet budgets are shrinking. And how do we do this and it leaves educational leaders in this terrible heckle. How do I do more with glass? And the ideas had just resonated and sort of taking off there and a publisher that specializes in education book came to me and ask asked if I can write a version of Multipliers for educators. And I thought that’s actually interesting but I don’t have time, I’m working on another business research topic pic that I’m crazy interested in in. You know I'm super high on that obsessive curiosity in fact for me I couldn’t possibly put that aside and you know this might b be e actually the most important application and these ideas. And of course I think of young people like your son son. I was so touched when I saw his blog and just him so clearly understanding tanding what it’s like to be le led by a multiplier.
www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
5
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
And what is like to have a soccer coach around him be don’t play at your best. And you know versus change you know his coach and then I thought well then I probably should do this but I still don’t have the time and the publisher said well we could you kno know w fly like a ghost rider for you. y You could find a research assistant, we could find people who understand education really well who can help you. And I thought well I actually know someone who understands education really well who could help. And that’s my mom, my mom was a former special Ed teache teacher, r, former assistant principal in elementary and in middle school. And so I phoned up my mom, Mom you know a publisher wants me to write a book will you write this with me? And she said oh dear of course I’ll h help elp you with that. And she helped me copy edit the first book. You know treating it as if it was like I don’t know a high school term paper something and she just you know helping her daughter find mistakes and fix them in. And she said I’ll help you sure dear and I’m like no no no no mom not like that not help. I’m asking if you’ll co author this with me. And she you know she had to think about it for a little while and she decided to jump in and do it. And so I got to write this book with my mom. Book was truly a total honor as well as elite sponsor another colleague who comes out of the educational who are jump in like us and was sort of became a second daughter to my mother and this kind of incredible mother daughter project. Nic: That was unexpected because ecause as you said it seems like you were on another direction and you were persuaded to come back and do this and that’s led to what seems like it’s gonna be a wonderful outcome. Are you happy with the book? Liz: You know we’re thrilled with the book. We setup sort of a challenge, we’re trying really hard in our little firm to practice the Multiplier practice. And so when we jumped in it was very easy to just say okay let’s take the old book and let’s draw a few education examples then and call it done. And d you know we set a goal for our self as you know what would we need to do to make this book better than the original for educators. And you know I think we’ve done that and I think it was my mother Louise who really got done she said you know Elizabeth I think now this is a better for educators. It’s just might be a better book. Because Multipliers can now I don’t know almost 3 years ago and we’ve learned a lot. And we’ve learned a lot of new ones since then and we’ve learned how to help people really be differently. And so the new book it take a full of resources and tools as I was just trying how do I simplify this. How do I make it really easy for someone to know and read this book? But to just do something the next day and right away and so it was to ssimplify implify simplify simplify make it compelling and easy to just take a step. So yeah I think it’s good and ironically I was so excited about all the new goodies in this book for educators that I called up publisher for the first book and said hey let’s do a second edition I got all these new tools and resources and why don’t I go back and sort of rewrite the first and put that all in there and my very very savvy publishers’ said we’ll do that when we finish the other business book you’re working on. Give us tthat first. So the other book is being extorted out of total delight. Nic: So tell me then with the book you know I’ve been tempted myself at times with various teachers that my kids that had had, to give them the book. Because the ulterior motive here is to hopefully opefully that they’ll read it and recognizing themselves you know tendencies that they be both directions multiplier and diminisher. And you know this idea that if I give them the book hopefully they’ll change. www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
6
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
I mean what’s your perspective with, what ki kind of feedback have you had from people who have said you the you know what I read the book I was a diminisher and as a result of the book I actually have changed. And I’m noticing a change in what I’m doing. I mean that’s a broad from question across the all the different the industries. But in education what’s the feedback there from teachers and whether you're 're creating an actual change in them? Liz: Well you know I think so you know we are saying educators maybe even more so the business leaders take these ideas and run with them. I think the reason why is because they're so native to educators. And I think what happens is you know education attract a certain type of person. And you know maybe in short it’s people who take pleasure and find joy in the development and learning of others. It naturally just puts them on the path of being a multiplier and any grade educator teaches like a multiplier. And they’re using their heir own knowledge and intelligence is sort of ignite a passion of learning and spark intelligence and capability. Another they do it naturally in their role as teachers but I think what happens is when te teachers go in to administration. ey think of well this is a different role so it requires a different skill set. And so They forget and they they kind of put on some leadership cloak some administrative cloak and they forget what made them great. And for a lot of leaders educational leaders who have read Mult Multipliers ipliers I think that’s just of a ton to what they already know to be truth. And that seem the people they lead in their schools the same wa way y they saw their students actually makes them a really brilliant leader. And so we’ve seen a lot of leaders just very quickly shift their assumptions shift practices. We’ve seen leaders certainly in the US but in England, Chile find something that they can do that has really change the way they lead. Here’s what the book doesn’t do. You know it doesn’t change other peopl people. e. And you know I get this a lot people like I read the book and I work for you know one of the great diminishers of all time. How do I change him? How do I change her? Like can I just give them the book well that do it. And I think that’s a big unequivoca unequivocal no it won’t. You know don’t waste your money. Don’t buy book. You know don’t even slip it under their door. And you know I’ve just seen too many people try to change someone else. And it doesn’t go anywhere in fact there was a company in I got contacted by a number of people in the company and saying oh our boss is just one of this diminishers that you wrote about. Help us help us and their boss is actually someone that I knew from you know sort of a previous career. You know they talk to me and they’re coming down and spending some time and they said ok we’ll read the book I’ve also read the book everyone read the book. And they have this image that I was gonna come down sit around the table for them for an hour so we talk about it. And that their boss would have this epiphany wow you know I am one of this diminishers I’ve been leading wrong woooh you know it’s so I watched their faces as they waited for this to happened. You could imagine it’s just never happen in fact quite the opposite happened at the end of the meeting. You know his walking me out and he’s like oh Liz that was so great I love your book. I just love this ideas you know I’m such a multiplier. And it actually created the opposite kind of impact that I call just forget about me you know. And so I just you know I caution all of us that we don’t really have the right to change the way someone else leads. You know organizations were seen to have impacted. And your focus here is influence. Where I’ve been the most influential is where I focused on helping people see how they could improve as a leader rather trying to improved their bosses or their colleagues. I have mapped that influential and in that in fact you know I feel like I've fallen on n my face a couple of times when I’ve been tempted to do that. www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
7
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
Nic: Well I think it’s… Liz: The real influence is changing our own approach to leadership Nic: Look I 100% agree with that. Because so much of what’s written about influence is how to persuade and influence other people and of course th they ey have great skills to develop and everyone can learn to maximize those. It doesn’t always mean that you have mind control and then you actually going to be successful and changing someone else’s behavior. And I think you’re absolutely right that being a able ble to influence ourselves is one of the most important things that we focused on here. So I mean how do you, you know that the behaviors that people have that are diminishing? How do people go about making those changes to themselves when you talk about tthat in your own life? And how of you going about identifying what your diminishing traits are? What techniques or skills or structures have you put in place that actually help you to limit those behaviors and focus on the multiplier behaviors? Liz: Well I think and that you know when I said this second book is you know has is better than the first installment. One ne of the reasons why is because I’ve learned to see the subtleties when I started you know sort of studying Multipliers diminishers as if th they’re this polar opposite. So somehow it’s Darth Vader and Luke S Skywalker. And where I have I think have tthe most influence is seen this phase e in between where you know many of us are accidental diminishers. And I think for me and for others it’s seem that sometimes we do our greatest damage with the best of intentions. And you know for me as a you know I’m a founder, president, owner of a research and consultant firm. I’m a mom to four kids. You know I remember of the rules where I have to lead. ead. You know in addition to my own work ork writing and teaching and I’ve learned to see the subtext that where I end up shutting people down despite the very best of intentions. And you know what I’ve learned to do is see where we tend to accidentally dimini diminish for me. I’m an idea guy you know I might wooh what about this what about this. And constantly like blowing out ideas and I find it some ways it overwhelms people and then shut down. And I’ve learned to find this workarounds. You know so all this little ideas I’ve learned to create a whole new tank so I don’tt overwhelm my team, my children. With oh what about this? And how about this, oh look you could d do o this. And I’ve learned to hold back. And there’s you know on your subject of interest of influence tthere’s here’s something a woman named Carol ---------. She’s phenomenal executive coach on the east coast said she’s the one who helped me see this with regard to multipliers. coaches, know when it's time to be big and when whe it’s time But I think something she said the best coaches to be small. And I think the same iis s true with leaders you know the best leaders and certainly the multipliers we studied no one is trying to be big. Big with an idea, a challenge, a question you know and let’s kindda retreat and be small and be quiet or back and create room for other people. And I think this is really importantly understanding influence. You know that when as coach, coach a top leader, an executive in a corporation corporation, a parent, a teacher - you know when you’re you’r always on everyone else has to be always off. I mean when you’re ’re always on people turn you out. And you know there’s a little Charlie Brown rown cartoon there’s a voice of the teacher you know in this old cartoons. In fact I don’t know Nic do know this littl little voice this teacher does. Nic: No I don’t actually. www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
8
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
Liz: Ok it's you know wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa. You know and so the teacher in this cartoon is like speaking into some microphone. And for years I kid you not I always wonder why they do have like a robot for a teacher? Why does a teacher talk this way? I didn’t realize that Charles Schulz was telling ling this with letting the viewer of the these cartoons see what it’s like for children to hear their teacher. You know and it’s how that I sometimes sound to m my y kids certainly how I sound to my husband. You know like blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. So sometimes when we’re quiet we're hold, back we’re small - we’re more influential. Because when we do say something people - oh you know interesting, but pay attention. Nic: Well people are very much aware of other people who are trying to persuade and there’s that reciprocal pushback. You know you’re trying to change me and I’m gonna push back and resist that change for no other er reason other than you’re trying to change me me, irrespective respective of the wisdom of the change. I mean the impact to this really if we’re talking on our individual personal level. You got all this people in the workforce and you got people in their own busines businesses ses as well. Students going through and they’re all we talk about people as a population but each of them are individuals with thoughts, feelings, ambitions, talents talents, and all sorts of things to explore. And our interaction with other people can have such a positive or negative impact on that often more than we even realize. And I did an interview recently with a clinical psychologist Dr. Ken Christian he he's written the book called Your Own Worst Enemy How To Avoid Underachiev Underachievement. ement. And I wonder then because there is according to him and then he was telling me there’s research on underachievement and there’s a whole group of people who are going through adulthood who are underachieving they’re not tapping into their greatness if you wanna call it that. And not ot to blame diminishers because people are ultimately responsible but again we’re just not aware sometimes of the impact that other people are having on us. So when I was interviewing him and I had this one coming up with you I really saw the two end of th the e spectrum there where you’ve got the leaders who are diminishing or multiplying and they include parents who w diminish and multiply. And to some extent the result of that and you get to work with people on a one on one basis and these things actually do have ave very deep meaning for people in their lives and the quality of their life. And I saw the two to marry there because what you wanna do is help people not be underachievers. And I guess that’s the whole point there of the multiplier and going for that ap approach. proach. Isn’t just necessary flow someone to death so that you can get the most out of them and multiply the outcome? It’s the focus really is to help them would it be safe to say help them over achieve compared to what they thought they were capable of. Liz: Well you know you could I think the achievement word iis s a dangerous word. Maybe because I’m a little bit prone to overachievement that I think you know and I have four children and one of them who will remain unnamed here is probably more prone to achievement ievement than the others. And I see how worldly view of this child can get twisted up with this drive to achieve. achieve So I don’t know that driving ourselves to achieve is the lands that I will look at it through. The ones that we are looking is true is how do you do your best work work? And yeah multipliers what essentially they’re doing is they’re enabling people to do their best work. You know using their full intelligence and contributing at their fullest. But it’s to your p point oint into your colleagues point it’s a two way street.
www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
9
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
You know I’ve look at it through the lens of leadership that after digging in there again why the second book we feel like we’ve learned so much more is what’s the reciprocal contribution of the employee? yee? You know what do they need to do to contribute their best? So let’s just take an example one of the disciplines of the multipliers they’re a talent magnet. And the reason why people are attracted to work with them is because they find people's people native genius.. You know the thing they do easily and freely and they utilize it. So for me like my native genius probably my strongest native genius is would be that I take complex thing and I simplify it. I do it all the time. I do it everywhere. I do it sort of compulsively excessively. Now I could sit around and wait for some prince charming manager to come along and say geez Liz I’ve noticed that you’re really g good at synthesis. And there's thing thing and or we could use some of them and go through the data and the research and listen to people and synthesize it and pop out. Here's one or two things we need to do. That might take a year two years maybe a whole career if I’m unlucky maybe never. But I don’t need to wait for prince charming to come along and di discover scover that I can figure that out for myself. And I could say that if I work for you Nic you know what II'm pretty good at synthesizing things. You know about client project we’re doing whydon’t you let et me you know facilitate that meeting? meet And help bring us the closure or why don’t you let me go through these reports ports and help us come up with our top 3 trends? That should been offer proactively your genius and essentially give people kind of a user’s manual to give. You know here’s how to use me at my fullest. fullest And so I think there is a lot that sets with each of us that we can do to help ourselves achieve or do our best work and not underachieve because of our en environmental culture orr management. You know the fact that you don’t like the person achieve next to you. Nic: So given that you’ve I mean you explore explored it so deeply and I actually can’t wait to see the copy of the new book. When is it actually gonna be published? th
Liz: It’s the 19 of March and I will send one to you because I’m not sending ending it to you Nic but I’m really sending it to your son. Nic: Very good. Liz: I just was so I was so delighted by his sweet blog about what it means to be a multiplier and the diminisher and ass I think I’ve told you I really probbaly go ask other kids’ is what does it mean to a multiplier and it was so beautiful to watch how well they understood. And you know I think it taught me something ironically that I probably already know is that the way that really be influential and teach. I’m a teacher that’s what I do. I research research, I write, but it’s all for the purpose of teaching leaders how do they utilize people and talent. And you know when you’re at your best teaching you're you there helping people learn what they already know. And helping people disco discover ver something that they already know to be true. Because that’s really them. That’s hat’s the only way to make sustaining change or self development is when you discover something about yourself that you already know. And the teacher has helped you to figure that at out. So you son help helped me discover what I already knew. Nic: Well he'll be absolutely chaffed and every time I mentioned your book or your name here he always gets a big smile on his face. And so it’s the impact that you can have on a one to one basis. Again one of the things with the internet we talk about influence and we talk about large groups of people. And we forget that they’re all individuals and all the little touch points we have with people whether they’re big or small young or old can have such a positive influence on their lives. lives And www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
10
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
definitely being involved with you and you work has h had ad that through my family I’ve seen that. And just something too, you've caused me to reflect on there when I was an academic teaching at university I taught in a lot of muscular skeletal pain medicine sort of thing. And there’s a lot of detail that I teach. And so I was the lecturer and now I had awesome information and I did consume information a lot of it. I’ve read research papers all the time sso o I’m always up to date with what the latest thing was. And you know what I do now is trying not to teach anything at all and tried to base all my presentations with questions. Just to find out what people know and then to find out if they don’t know it iiff I can use questions again to help them actually discover the answer for themselves. And then it’s a complete 180 rather than thinking I’m the founder of knowledge and have to teach people this information. University has put them at my feet to teach them and I have to do it. It’s just a completely refreshing way to look at it. I feel less exhausted when I run sessions like this. Because I'm not having to be the encyclopedia and to the people as so much more involved involve and active as a result of asking questi questions. ons. And if truth be told one of the key things that set me off on this was your anecdote when I heard you present in Fiji when we we’re there together. About how someone had advice adviced you when you go home in the evening with your children to spend the whole e evening just asking questions instead of trying to organize and to get off to bed and do their homework and all that sort of thing. And you know the whole art of asking questions and seeing the incredible result it can have when you frame everything that way has been quite quit revolutionary for me and as a part of now what I actually do. So you know how have you seen that workout of what you do. Liz: You know I’m glad, it was profound for me - profound. So when you know Bryan my colleagues and it was why don’ don’t you just go home you know, Liz - fussy mom you know you bark an orders. You know get your bum in bed, brush your teeth, put that away, leave her alone. You know when he gave me this little subtle challenge and it wasn’t that overt players go do this thing and it was just an observation you know. I wonder what would happen if you just talk to them in the form of question. I kind of know what probably turned it into like a big obsessive I can do that that will be interesting. Challenge. this was so profound that when I ask asked the questions and just the nature of the challenge we talk about this before is it? It wasn’t ask more questions it was only ask questions. Can you go home tonight and speak to your children only in the form of quest questions? ions? You know everything ends in a question mark. It was such a fun curious challenge for me and I did it. And I ended up keeping it up to three nights because what was happening in my home was so profound as I realized my kids ds didn’t need me telling the them m how to get the bed. They knew the routine. They knew what they needed to do. They knew how to do a lot of studies. And it just there is this incredible shift in my home that I think this shift probably was in me realizing that I was choosing to take a very ry low value role inside my home. You know where for me leadership matters more than anywhere. I hope it does for everyone or leadership that we demonstrate in our homes is what I think will do our very greatest act of leadership probably. You know our greatest eatest service to our communities is to get leadership right in our home. What would happen if everyone could get that role right where they were at their best? I think we’ve probably ly have fewer diminishers in the workplace as a result to that. But you know kno I was just barking orders directing traffic and instead you know my played the role asking questions is it shifts the burden of thinking to my children.
www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
11
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
And it shifts accountability and ownership and it’s a fun exercise to just go extreme onc. on And then you know we will conjure that up and anytime we need whether its teaching class and you know whether it’s leading a meeting. But I find - I still you know I don’t say I was in the form of questions as it’s obvious. But I tend to go there in times of extreme extreme. When things are extremely good and you know but maybe one of my staff member in our firm has just come back and had a really successful workshop. That’s my secret is - hold back and just ask about that experience. You know what happened? What was intere interesting? sting? What do they? And then let that person kind of be big in that moment. I also do it when things have gone extremely wrong. Like not too recently when we left thirteen year old son in charge of his eight year old brother on his very first baby sittin sitting g assignment in his first foray in the baby sitting. And we are gone about an hour my last words for him our sort of my only words were stay with your brother stay with your younger brother. And about an hour later we gott the call from the local police in our town in Menlo park saying we have your sons here in police custody could you come pick them up. How did that happened? Nic: In an hour. Liz: It was an hour we have ordered our dinner and it didn’t arrive yet. And the police are calling to say that they have our sons. My eight year old who was in police custody and of course I’m just you know full of uh and it was a great chance to just sit back and ask. I only had to asked ask two questions. ns. Really maybe I think I only to ask one question. And that was all it took. So just kind of troubleshoot shoot that little situation and they are fine they didn’t find themselves into too much trouble. Nic: That is I mean to have that happened I would have be been en at least the last thing you would have expected is sitting for dinner to have the police call. I can only imagine what you thought when you got the call. So look I just want to wrap this up but I did wanted to give you one last opportunity. Because you mentioned that you are passionate about this other thing this other book that you’re working on the other business book. Are you able to give us a hint about what that is and what the time frame do you think is for that? Liz: Well I can. You ou know what I a am m studying is I’m studying experience. And when does experience matter? And more interesting to me is when is being inexperienced a novice? You know a newbie a rookie. When is that more valuable than the experience the knowledge and then finding it's tremendously ndously valuable? And it’s a newest experience is itt relevant and does it matter? And how do we maintain sort of a perpetual rookie mindset. To me it’s really really fascinating. How do you stay on a path of agility and really rapid cycle learning? So I’m having tons of fun with it. And hopefully it will find its way into a book in about a year. Nic: In about a year. Okk alright. We will have to touch base again because I’m sure it will be fantastic. So I really wanted to thank you for taking the time to sha share re all that with us today. And I wish you all the best with the book that is coming up very shortly to be with education and the new one that’s coming out in a year. Liz: Thanks good talking to you I’m a big fan of Harley your son. So tell him I’m sending a book off to him and I just appreciate him teaching and I love to share his blog with people. Nic: Will do
www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
12
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
Liz: Nic Thank You Nic: Ok Liz that’ss great thanks so muc much………
www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
13
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS Liz: Things that used to be attendance showing now one man show. And fully got the one man working really hard but at jobs you know being made or abandoned everywhere. But are recording are we good? Nic: Yeah we are good to go now. So Hi and welcome to Influence Faculty my name is Dr Nic Lucas and I have with me on interview today Liz Wiseman who is renowned for many things. One of them is a book called Multipliers. And I would just say, good morning to yo you u Liz how you going? Liz: Great great good morning to you it’s Saturday morning for you and Friday for me. So I’m ending the day you’re beginning the day. Nic: Well see what a great way to win the week for you then its Friday,, having a chat to someone overr the phone as they say. So look what I wanted to do was let people know that again the reason we do these interviews is I’m fascinated to find out from other people who are influential like yourself. How you go about being influential in your life? And your our key area of study has bee been around leadership and that led d to the book Multipliers. And I just wonder if you could give us a brief background of your life in terms of how it led you to writing Multipliers and then what you’re actually doing now with you your business. Liz: Yeah sure you know I think when I graduated from school I guess I’ve always been a good student. I don’t necessarily mean than from you know not necessarily the best academic but I’ve always loved school, loved learning. After graduate sch school I joined a full company called Oracle and I just landed in this stew of incredibly smart interesting people. And I just became a student and loved learning as in people around me. I really truly felt like everyday it was an honor to come to work and jjust ust be around people who are so brilliant. And I had days when I’m like wow II'm definitely not the smartest one here and I just might be the dumbest.. But I work around smart people so I’m the luckiest person here. And I’ve guess I’ve always I felt that way until when I started working for this company and I watched all of these really smart people. And I got put into the management really really young that was about a year out of graduate school 24 years old. And II've been teaching as a technical instructor and they sort of tapp tapped me on the shoulder and said, we want you to run our training group. And you know a month later I got the direction in field work in a university and I was 24 years old and you know I have done one nothing like that and really have no business doing that but it was just an incredible opportunity. I’ve ve just to get sort of shoved in the management and build this knowledge center and this university for the company. So all that is to say I got to work ork around a lot of really smart executives and to study them you know to sort of being a student of leadership and I was a leader myself. But maybe because I was so junior, I just watched and observed and I noticed that not all of th these e really smart executives tives created smart and intelligent around them. A lot of them seemed to sort of suck intelligence out of that room. They’re need to be smart - shutdown smart around them and other leaders you know were also brilliant. But they had a different effect on p people eople they had this you know where I came to call a multiplier effect that people got smarter and more capable around them. And I just I watched my www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
1
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
colleagues around these different kinds of leaders and I thought you know there’s there’ really something up here. And you know I left Oracle after 17 years of working there it was great experience and I start doing coaching. I coached a lot of other executives and I could see again why is it that sometimes these executives are smart but no one else get gets to be smart. And what really mean a smart organization is not just smart leaders and that’s what led me to do this study. And kind of uncover you know why is it that some leaders need to amplify intelligence. Nic: And so is that what you still doing, you still mostly have a consulting and coaching organization speaking? Liz: We have a firm called The Wiseman Group and you know what we do kind of simply put as we help develop the kind of leadership and we need to tackle tough problems. And you know Multipliers liers is a piece of that. How d do you lead in a way that you get full access to the intelligence inside your organization? Because you know our belief is that our toughest problems can be solved by using the intelligence that sits within. And we’ve spent a lot of time doing that in businesses and we’re now doing that for new schools and I don’t know that this is quiet as pronounced in Australia as it is in US but this is probably as a nation the challenge of this decade is how do we think and revitalize education. You know how do we solve problems at the education system wasn’t built for and how do we invent that? And the belief is that the intelligence to do that sits inside of our schools that does not a matter of policy makers and experts that are educato educators and our staff know how to solve those problems and we need leadership that will allow us to do that. So that’ss what we do. As a firm we you know we te teach, ch, we consult, we coach and help organizations build that kind of leadership. For me honestly honestly, I spend most of my time researching, writing, speaking and I do a small amount of executive coaching. Nic: So and it’s all still around this all area that you’ve really been in since you first started working in Oracle. And so what is it that really keep keeps s you in this? What is it that when you get out of the day and you go into your day that really keeps you passionate and keeps you drawing forward? Liz: Well you know I think I’m just I’m a part of a curious researcher. And you know if someone I’m working on my third book now which is a totally different topic and if someone tried to connect all the dots and say you know what’s that common denominator between what you work on and what you research right about the answer is stuff that interesting. You know things that are interesting questions that I don’t have the answers to that. I’m curious about like I just want to know it because sometimes it ttakes akes me years to kind of keep peeling ling this back and tried to figure out what’s going on and what’s driving you know as a way we lead. And how do we utilize intelligen intelligence inside of our organizations. s. So it’s not like I do any kind of market assessment you know what are hot topics, what’s an interest to the market. You know for me to pursue something is deeply as I ttry ry to presume I have to be really crazy interested sort of ferociously hungry to know something. So that’s what tends to drive me it’s just a hunger to wanna learn about it and then once I learn about it, it chance to teach other people what we have found out. Nic: And so in that regard then what would you say looking back over your career that your biggest contribution to this field is? www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
2
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
Liz: Well you know it’s so funny that you ask that because it was maybe about 6 months after the Multipliers book came out. A colleague just casually said to me he said it must be a really good to have made such a contribution to your profession. And honestly Nic it had not occurred to me that I have made a contribution to my profession. And that wasn’t really what drove me. I mean what drove me was just this hunger to find out and to share what I had learned but then I step back and said, 'II really do feel like that body of work has made a contribution.' Because essentially what we put out there is a model of leadership that t we think it’s going to help us tackle really really big hard problems and to help the industry and the profession move away from a model of leadership where you know the leaders job is to know, to tell to act. And you know shifting to model where the leader is to access access, unleash,, to harness intelligence on o other people. When hen I finished up the research I gave a call to one of my mentors. Some of them are deeply influenced me Dr Steve K. Prahalada Prahalada. He passed a couple of years ago. At the University of Michigan he is really influential, business mentor mentor. And I shared with him this research I’ve nervous would it be adequate would it be rigorous enough and seeking response post you know well this is such an important idea because the criticall skill of this essentially is not what you know it how quickly you can tap into and access what the people around you know. You know I think that was seek his observation of this work that help me see that we really are looking at a fundamentally differe different nt model of leadership. And last week I had an opportunity to go out to Korea where just on Monday of this week, South Korea has just inaugurated their first female President. And with you know President Parks as sort of new administration and their economy econo has been rapid growth through slowing a little bit. You know their stepping back to look at what their agenda previous administration should be and what the South really need to do to continue to grow and be vibrant. And they asked me to come out and jo join in them in this conference they called New Leadership Great Korea. Because they’re grappling what kind of leadership do we need in the future? You know in this very hierarchical culture is trying to understand how do we move away from this notion that you know the leaders sit at the top of the pyramid and they’re to be revered and respected and never questioned. And to see this that was a conference nce of the top CEO’s across Korea to see these CEO’s trying to understand what kind of leadership do they need to grow. What kind of leadership do they need to be this new generation of young people who expect very very different models of leadership? And so it’s fun to be able to contribute to that and to help a nation shape it’s political and business and leadership agenda. So that’s been it’s been fun to see the ideas kind of spread to different parts of the world. Nic: Well talking about spread then because spread happens is another way to say word of mouth and also you have growing in recognition around your expertise here. So I mean when people come to you and they ask for your advice or ask you to be involved as in the conference you’ve just described. bed. Why is it, what are people talking about you? What are they saying, they're gossiping about you? What’s the word of mouth on Liz Wiseman and why you would be the kind of person that would be out to help them? mouth, I had to say honestly what they expected of me Liz: Well I don’t know with the word of mo and my expertise was not really what I thought like I could deliver I got one over there. And A they’re asking me to contribute you know what should the administration the new government agenda before creating ing social welfare and bouncing economic growth versus social welfare.
www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
3
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
And I keep saying this is so part my area of expertise. You know I really studied leadership. I study it in business and in education and you know. So I was asked to comment on what’s going g on in North Korea and economic development in North Korea. So that was a little outside my area of expertise. But you know I think people look to me because I have deeply studied leadership and intelligence and you know it’s probably one of the typic typical al issues of our time as we’re moving into in more of a knowledge industries. So you know I think there’s something in the research and the content but I think there’s also something in the energy. Maybe it’s best that I just put up it xanga last a couple of days ago and it would have been in internet company and really interesting and successful company and premier -------- they said something like we like Liz’s content and we like her energy. And I think maybe that’s it, I think you know kind of to a question of ask me why have I’ve been influential? Maybe because I’m willing to sort of tell it like it is but in a way that’s fun and funny and easy. One of the very first executive that I coached and we are worki working on kind of what his strengths were his native genius. And you know that’s just thing he does easily and freely and got done with this process and he an aboriginal I know what your genius is. What’s that thing you do and I’m like oh you know know, you tell . And he goes you have this ability to tell people the truth but do it in a way that they can hear it. And I think that is something that has allowed to be influential is being a truth teller and being direct and but also I don’t know if it’s gentle or you know in a way that it’s jus just easy to learn easy to absorb. I don’t know making sometimes a hard news easy to hear. Nic: Well I mean this would be a trait of a multiplier, correct as well. Liz: Well maybe but I have as many natural traits of diminishers I just have to fight them off. But you know well Liz are you more of a multiplier or diminisher? You know being the opposite of these leaders who is sort of being amplify intelligence. Even my responses is it takes one to no one. I think I’m a natural multiplier iplier that I could see this dynamic and I could put a name to it. Because I could see these leaders who had this effects and I think I had enough that in me that I could recognize it and knew what to ask for and to study it and describe it. But you know I’ve I got enough diminisher in me as well. You know I’ve got enough of the micro managing rapid responding you know know would all I have to watch for this I have to be careful. You know the path of this persistence for many people and certainly for me is to end up having a diminishing impact. You know sometimes without ev even knowing it. So I think it takes one to know one there too. And I can recognize how easy it is to have a diminishing impact because I’ve been there. I’ve spent years managing and managing large teams and large organizations. And I know I can recognize the bait and I’d taken it too many times myself. Nic: Well I mean the interesting thing there you just using those terms and you being to recognize those two categories is this simplicity of tthat as well. Because I’ve looked at a lot of different models in influence in behavior change and when you read the academic journals often all models are complex. And one of the things that appealed so much to me when I first heard you present this and I’m gonna read your book was even though I like detail. And I think we all have an ego around how much detail we can handle sometimes I really really appreciate the ssimplicity implicity of it so much though that as you know my son who was seven at that time, he asked sked me what I was reading and I explained it to him and he immediately recognized that his soccer coach had the characteristics of a multiplier.
www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
4
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
And that the standing coach oach he had on the weekend had the characteristics of a diminisher. So it was a concept that was incredibly easy for him to grasp. And to be honest for the last few years he has consistently used those terms around his own behavior and around seeing behavior behavi in other people as well. So that’s for me the beauty of it is its simple enough yet profound enough to really have a difference. Because people of all ages can get an idea of it and I guess that’s leads me to my question then this new book that you’re bringing out is a book that’s aimed at more at education. Can you tell us a bit about that and again why you think it’s so important, it been important enough for you to lend your mind and energy to over the last few years for education? Liz: Well sure now it is what I strive to do is take the simple idea not over complicate it. And you know to that point when I was writing the book my publisher Harper said, Liz write me a simple book like don’t fancy it out don’t you know fancy up the vocabulary. Use simple le words and just keep it simple. And I’m writing notes to myself and like good because I don’t actually know any fancy words. Like I didn’t have to dumb down this I just trying to describe the dynamic and that I think hink is what we have seen is that ideas do resonate. And you know did not surprise me that ideas resonated in this in technology. You know I come out of a tech world during Silicon Valley. What we found is that the ideas have resonated in places, in industries and companies and parts of the world that have four common factors. I think it was probably sitting on an airplane one day and as I wondering why am I coming back in the Middle East. And why am I teaching at the naval academy I know nothing about the military? Why am I being asked to go in and nd teach in places where I know nothing? And I realize that the ideas for me have the biggest impact in places where there was one growth agenda. If you you're trying to manage growth or return to growth were two there’s a resource shortage either born out of value. Austere times economically or a resource shortage drive from a talent shortage. So we just don’t have people with this skill around the world. The third is where there is connecting emerging sense that the current models of leadership are not working, they’re not sufficient. And then last thing quite often where there is a growth agenda I’m sorry where there is an innovation agenda. Is if you look at this things and you find that it’ it’s s relevant in the military. It’s relevant in South Korea. It’ss relevant in the Middle East. It’s relevant with tech companies but maybe it’s relevant in health care. We were dealing with you know some of our biggest challenges is you know how do we keep doing them more with fewer resources. And were this seems really ly come together hard is in education where the need for you know rethinking and reforming and transforming and revolutionizing and creating a modern education system but yet budgets are shrinking. And how do we do this and it leaves educational leaders in this terrible heckle. How do I do more with glass? And the ideas had just resonated and sort of taking off there and a publisher that specializes in education book came to me and ask asked if I can write a version of Multipliers for educators. And I thought that’s actually interesting but I don’t have time, I’m working on another business research topic pic that I’m crazy interested in in. You know I'm super high on that obsessive curiosity in fact for me I couldn’t possibly put that aside and you know this might b be e actually the most important application and these ideas. And of course I think of young people like your son son. I was so touched when I saw his blog and just him so clearly understanding tanding what it’s like to be le led by a multiplier.
www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
5
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
And what is like to have a soccer coach around him be don’t play at your best. And you know versus change you know his coach and then I thought well then I probably should do this but I still don’t have the time and the publisher said well we could you kno know w fly like a ghost rider for you. y You could find a research assistant, we could find people who understand education really well who can help you. And I thought well I actually know someone who understands education really well who could help. And that’s my mom, my mom was a former special Ed teache teacher, r, former assistant principal in elementary and in middle school. And so I phoned up my mom, Mom you know a publisher wants me to write a book will you write this with me? And she said oh dear of course I’ll h help elp you with that. And she helped me copy edit the first book. You know treating it as if it was like I don’t know a high school term paper something and she just you know helping her daughter find mistakes and fix them in. And she said I’ll help you sure dear and I’m like no no no no mom not like that not help. I’m asking if you’ll co author this with me. And she you know she had to think about it for a little while and she decided to jump in and do it. And so I got to write this book with my mom. Book was truly a total honor as well as elite sponsor another colleague who comes out of the educational who are jump in like us and was sort of became a second daughter to my mother and this kind of incredible mother daughter project. Nic: That was unexpected because ecause as you said it seems like you were on another direction and you were persuaded to come back and do this and that’s led to what seems like it’s gonna be a wonderful outcome. Are you happy with the book? Liz: You know we’re thrilled with the book. We setup sort of a challenge, we’re trying really hard in our little firm to practice the Multiplier practice. And so when we jumped in it was very easy to just say okay let’s take the old book and let’s draw a few education examples then and call it done. And d you know we set a goal for our self as you know what would we need to do to make this book better than the original for educators. And you know I think we’ve done that and I think it was my mother Louise who really got done she said you know Elizabeth I think now this is a better for educators. It’s just might be a better book. Because Multipliers can now I don’t know almost 3 years ago and we’ve learned a lot. And we’ve learned a lot of new ones since then and we’ve learned how to help people really be differently. And so the new book it take a full of resources and tools as I was just trying how do I simplify this. How do I make it really easy for someone to know and read this book? But to just do something the next day and right away and so it was to ssimplify implify simplify simplify make it compelling and easy to just take a step. So yeah I think it’s good and ironically I was so excited about all the new goodies in this book for educators that I called up publisher for the first book and said hey let’s do a second edition I got all these new tools and resources and why don’t I go back and sort of rewrite the first and put that all in there and my very very savvy publishers’ said we’ll do that when we finish the other business book you’re working on. Give us tthat first. So the other book is being extorted out of total delight. Nic: So tell me then with the book you know I’ve been tempted myself at times with various teachers that my kids that had had, to give them the book. Because the ulterior motive here is to hopefully opefully that they’ll read it and recognizing themselves you know tendencies that they be both directions multiplier and diminisher. And you know this idea that if I give them the book hopefully they’ll change. www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
6
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
I mean what’s your perspective with, what ki kind of feedback have you had from people who have said you the you know what I read the book I was a diminisher and as a result of the book I actually have changed. And I’m noticing a change in what I’m doing. I mean that’s a broad from question across the all the different the industries. But in education what’s the feedback there from teachers and whether you're 're creating an actual change in them? Liz: Well you know I think so you know we are saying educators maybe even more so the business leaders take these ideas and run with them. I think the reason why is because they're so native to educators. And I think what happens is you know education attract a certain type of person. And you know maybe in short it’s people who take pleasure and find joy in the development and learning of others. It naturally just puts them on the path of being a multiplier and any grade educator teaches like a multiplier. And they’re using their heir own knowledge and intelligence is sort of ignite a passion of learning and spark intelligence and capability. Another they do it naturally in their role as teachers but I think what happens is when te teachers go in to administration. ey think of well this is a different role so it requires a different skill set. And so They forget and they they kind of put on some leadership cloak some administrative cloak and they forget what made them great. And for a lot of leaders educational leaders who have read Mult Multipliers ipliers I think that’s just of a ton to what they already know to be truth. And that seem the people they lead in their schools the same wa way y they saw their students actually makes them a really brilliant leader. And so we’ve seen a lot of leaders just very quickly shift their assumptions shift practices. We’ve seen leaders certainly in the US but in England, Chile find something that they can do that has really change the way they lead. Here’s what the book doesn’t do. You know it doesn’t change other peopl people. e. And you know I get this a lot people like I read the book and I work for you know one of the great diminishers of all time. How do I change him? How do I change her? Like can I just give them the book well that do it. And I think that’s a big unequivoca unequivocal no it won’t. You know don’t waste your money. Don’t buy book. You know don’t even slip it under their door. And you know I’ve just seen too many people try to change someone else. And it doesn’t go anywhere in fact there was a company in I got contacted by a number of people in the company and saying oh our boss is just one of this diminishers that you wrote about. Help us help us and their boss is actually someone that I knew from you know sort of a previous career. You know they talk to me and they’re coming down and spending some time and they said ok we’ll read the book I’ve also read the book everyone read the book. And they have this image that I was gonna come down sit around the table for them for an hour so we talk about it. And that their boss would have this epiphany wow you know I am one of this diminishers I’ve been leading wrong woooh you know it’s so I watched their faces as they waited for this to happened. You could imagine it’s just never happen in fact quite the opposite happened at the end of the meeting. You know his walking me out and he’s like oh Liz that was so great I love your book. I just love this ideas you know I’m such a multiplier. And it actually created the opposite kind of impact that I call just forget about me you know. And so I just you know I caution all of us that we don’t really have the right to change the way someone else leads. You know organizations were seen to have impacted. And your focus here is influence. Where I’ve been the most influential is where I focused on helping people see how they could improve as a leader rather trying to improved their bosses or their colleagues. I have mapped that influential and in that in fact you know I feel like I've fallen on n my face a couple of times when I’ve been tempted to do that. www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
7
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
Nic: Well I think it’s… Liz: The real influence is changing our own approach to leadership Nic: Look I 100% agree with that. Because so much of what’s written about influence is how to persuade and influence other people and of course th they ey have great skills to develop and everyone can learn to maximize those. It doesn’t always mean that you have mind control and then you actually going to be successful and changing someone else’s behavior. And I think you’re absolutely right that being a able ble to influence ourselves is one of the most important things that we focused on here. So I mean how do you, you know that the behaviors that people have that are diminishing? How do people go about making those changes to themselves when you talk about tthat in your own life? And how of you going about identifying what your diminishing traits are? What techniques or skills or structures have you put in place that actually help you to limit those behaviors and focus on the multiplier behaviors? Liz: Well I think and that you know when I said this second book is you know has is better than the first installment. One ne of the reasons why is because I’ve learned to see the subtleties when I started you know sort of studying Multipliers diminishers as if th they’re this polar opposite. So somehow it’s Darth Vader and Luke S Skywalker. And where I have I think have tthe most influence is seen this phase e in between where you know many of us are accidental diminishers. And I think for me and for others it’s seem that sometimes we do our greatest damage with the best of intentions. And you know for me as a you know I’m a founder, president, owner of a research and consultant firm. I’m a mom to four kids. You know I remember of the rules where I have to lead. ead. You know in addition to my own work ork writing and teaching and I’ve learned to see the subtext that where I end up shutting people down despite the very best of intentions. And you know what I’ve learned to do is see where we tend to accidentally dimini diminish for me. I’m an idea guy you know I might wooh what about this what about this. And constantly like blowing out ideas and I find it some ways it overwhelms people and then shut down. And I’ve learned to find this workarounds. You know so all this little ideas I’ve learned to create a whole new tank so I don’tt overwhelm my team, my children. With oh what about this? And how about this, oh look you could d do o this. And I’ve learned to hold back. And there’s you know on your subject of interest of influence tthere’s here’s something a woman named Carol ---------. She’s phenomenal executive coach on the east coast said she’s the one who helped me see this with regard to multipliers. coaches, know when it's time to be big and when whe it’s time But I think something she said the best coaches to be small. And I think the same iis s true with leaders you know the best leaders and certainly the multipliers we studied no one is trying to be big. Big with an idea, a challenge, a question you know and let’s kindda retreat and be small and be quiet or back and create room for other people. And I think this is really importantly understanding influence. You know that when as coach, coach a top leader, an executive in a corporation corporation, a parent, a teacher - you know when you’re you’r always on everyone else has to be always off. I mean when you’re ’re always on people turn you out. And you know there’s a little Charlie Brown rown cartoon there’s a voice of the teacher you know in this old cartoons. In fact I don’t know Nic do know this littl little voice this teacher does. Nic: No I don’t actually. www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
8
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
Liz: Ok it's you know wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa. You know and so the teacher in this cartoon is like speaking into some microphone. And for years I kid you not I always wonder why they do have like a robot for a teacher? Why does a teacher talk this way? I didn’t realize that Charles Schulz was telling ling this with letting the viewer of the these cartoons see what it’s like for children to hear their teacher. You know and it’s how that I sometimes sound to m my y kids certainly how I sound to my husband. You know like blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. So sometimes when we’re quiet we're hold, back we’re small - we’re more influential. Because when we do say something people - oh you know interesting, but pay attention. Nic: Well people are very much aware of other people who are trying to persuade and there’s that reciprocal pushback. You know you’re trying to change me and I’m gonna push back and resist that change for no other er reason other than you’re trying to change me me, irrespective respective of the wisdom of the change. I mean the impact to this really if we’re talking on our individual personal level. You got all this people in the workforce and you got people in their own busines businesses ses as well. Students going through and they’re all we talk about people as a population but each of them are individuals with thoughts, feelings, ambitions, talents talents, and all sorts of things to explore. And our interaction with other people can have such a positive or negative impact on that often more than we even realize. And I did an interview recently with a clinical psychologist Dr. Ken Christian he he's written the book called Your Own Worst Enemy How To Avoid Underachiev Underachievement. ement. And I wonder then because there is according to him and then he was telling me there’s research on underachievement and there’s a whole group of people who are going through adulthood who are underachieving they’re not tapping into their greatness if you wanna call it that. And not ot to blame diminishers because people are ultimately responsible but again we’re just not aware sometimes of the impact that other people are having on us. So when I was interviewing him and I had this one coming up with you I really saw the two end of th the e spectrum there where you’ve got the leaders who are diminishing or multiplying and they include parents who w diminish and multiply. And to some extent the result of that and you get to work with people on a one on one basis and these things actually do have ave very deep meaning for people in their lives and the quality of their life. And I saw the two to marry there because what you wanna do is help people not be underachievers. And I guess that’s the whole point there of the multiplier and going for that ap approach. proach. Isn’t just necessary flow someone to death so that you can get the most out of them and multiply the outcome? It’s the focus really is to help them would it be safe to say help them over achieve compared to what they thought they were capable of. Liz: Well you know you could I think the achievement word iis s a dangerous word. Maybe because I’m a little bit prone to overachievement that I think you know and I have four children and one of them who will remain unnamed here is probably more prone to achievement ievement than the others. And I see how worldly view of this child can get twisted up with this drive to achieve. achieve So I don’t know that driving ourselves to achieve is the lands that I will look at it through. The ones that we are looking is true is how do you do your best work work? And yeah multipliers what essentially they’re doing is they’re enabling people to do their best work. You know using their full intelligence and contributing at their fullest. But it’s to your p point oint into your colleagues point it’s a two way street.
www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
9
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
You know I’ve look at it through the lens of leadership that after digging in there again why the second book we feel like we’ve learned so much more is what’s the reciprocal contribution of the employee? yee? You know what do they need to do to contribute their best? So let’s just take an example one of the disciplines of the multipliers they’re a talent magnet. And the reason why people are attracted to work with them is because they find people's people native genius.. You know the thing they do easily and freely and they utilize it. So for me like my native genius probably my strongest native genius is would be that I take complex thing and I simplify it. I do it all the time. I do it everywhere. I do it sort of compulsively excessively. Now I could sit around and wait for some prince charming manager to come along and say geez Liz I’ve noticed that you’re really g good at synthesis. And there's thing thing and or we could use some of them and go through the data and the research and listen to people and synthesize it and pop out. Here's one or two things we need to do. That might take a year two years maybe a whole career if I’m unlucky maybe never. But I don’t need to wait for prince charming to come along and di discover scover that I can figure that out for myself. And I could say that if I work for you Nic you know what II'm pretty good at synthesizing things. You know about client project we’re doing whydon’t you let et me you know facilitate that meeting? meet And help bring us the closure or why don’t you let me go through these reports ports and help us come up with our top 3 trends? That should been offer proactively your genius and essentially give people kind of a user’s manual to give. You know here’s how to use me at my fullest. fullest And so I think there is a lot that sets with each of us that we can do to help ourselves achieve or do our best work and not underachieve because of our en environmental culture orr management. You know the fact that you don’t like the person achieve next to you. Nic: So given that you’ve I mean you explore explored it so deeply and I actually can’t wait to see the copy of the new book. When is it actually gonna be published? th
Liz: It’s the 19 of March and I will send one to you because I’m not sending ending it to you Nic but I’m really sending it to your son. Nic: Very good. Liz: I just was so I was so delighted by his sweet blog about what it means to be a multiplier and the diminisher and ass I think I’ve told you I really probbaly go ask other kids’ is what does it mean to a multiplier and it was so beautiful to watch how well they understood. And you know I think it taught me something ironically that I probably already know is that the way that really be influential and teach. I’m a teacher that’s what I do. I research research, I write, but it’s all for the purpose of teaching leaders how do they utilize people and talent. And you know when you’re at your best teaching you're you there helping people learn what they already know. And helping people disco discover ver something that they already know to be true. Because that’s really them. That’s hat’s the only way to make sustaining change or self development is when you discover something about yourself that you already know. And the teacher has helped you to figure that at out. So you son help helped me discover what I already knew. Nic: Well he'll be absolutely chaffed and every time I mentioned your book or your name here he always gets a big smile on his face. And so it’s the impact that you can have on a one to one basis. Again one of the things with the internet we talk about influence and we talk about large groups of people. And we forget that they’re all individuals and all the little touch points we have with people whether they’re big or small young or old can have such a positive influence on their lives. lives And www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
10
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
definitely being involved with you and you work has h had ad that through my family I’ve seen that. And just something too, you've caused me to reflect on there when I was an academic teaching at university I taught in a lot of muscular skeletal pain medicine sort of thing. And there’s a lot of detail that I teach. And so I was the lecturer and now I had awesome information and I did consume information a lot of it. I’ve read research papers all the time sso o I’m always up to date with what the latest thing was. And you know what I do now is trying not to teach anything at all and tried to base all my presentations with questions. Just to find out what people know and then to find out if they don’t know it iiff I can use questions again to help them actually discover the answer for themselves. And then it’s a complete 180 rather than thinking I’m the founder of knowledge and have to teach people this information. University has put them at my feet to teach them and I have to do it. It’s just a completely refreshing way to look at it. I feel less exhausted when I run sessions like this. Because I'm not having to be the encyclopedia and to the people as so much more involved involve and active as a result of asking questi questions. ons. And if truth be told one of the key things that set me off on this was your anecdote when I heard you present in Fiji when we we’re there together. About how someone had advice adviced you when you go home in the evening with your children to spend the whole e evening just asking questions instead of trying to organize and to get off to bed and do their homework and all that sort of thing. And you know the whole art of asking questions and seeing the incredible result it can have when you frame everything that way has been quite quit revolutionary for me and as a part of now what I actually do. So you know how have you seen that workout of what you do. Liz: You know I’m glad, it was profound for me - profound. So when you know Bryan my colleagues and it was why don’ don’t you just go home you know, Liz - fussy mom you know you bark an orders. You know get your bum in bed, brush your teeth, put that away, leave her alone. You know when he gave me this little subtle challenge and it wasn’t that overt players go do this thing and it was just an observation you know. I wonder what would happen if you just talk to them in the form of question. I kind of know what probably turned it into like a big obsessive I can do that that will be interesting. Challenge. this was so profound that when I ask asked the questions and just the nature of the challenge we talk about this before is it? It wasn’t ask more questions it was only ask questions. Can you go home tonight and speak to your children only in the form of quest questions? ions? You know everything ends in a question mark. It was such a fun curious challenge for me and I did it. And I ended up keeping it up to three nights because what was happening in my home was so profound as I realized my kids ds didn’t need me telling the them m how to get the bed. They knew the routine. They knew what they needed to do. They knew how to do a lot of studies. And it just there is this incredible shift in my home that I think this shift probably was in me realizing that I was choosing to take a very ry low value role inside my home. You know where for me leadership matters more than anywhere. I hope it does for everyone or leadership that we demonstrate in our homes is what I think will do our very greatest act of leadership probably. You know our greatest eatest service to our communities is to get leadership right in our home. What would happen if everyone could get that role right where they were at their best? I think we’ve probably ly have fewer diminishers in the workplace as a result to that. But you know kno I was just barking orders directing traffic and instead you know my played the role asking questions is it shifts the burden of thinking to my children.
www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
11
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
And it shifts accountability and ownership and it’s a fun exercise to just go extreme onc. on And then you know we will conjure that up and anytime we need whether its teaching class and you know whether it’s leading a meeting. But I find - I still you know I don’t say I was in the form of questions as it’s obvious. But I tend to go there in times of extreme extreme. When things are extremely good and you know but maybe one of my staff member in our firm has just come back and had a really successful workshop. That’s my secret is - hold back and just ask about that experience. You know what happened? What was intere interesting? sting? What do they? And then let that person kind of be big in that moment. I also do it when things have gone extremely wrong. Like not too recently when we left thirteen year old son in charge of his eight year old brother on his very first baby sittin sitting g assignment in his first foray in the baby sitting. And we are gone about an hour my last words for him our sort of my only words were stay with your brother stay with your younger brother. And about an hour later we gott the call from the local police in our town in Menlo park saying we have your sons here in police custody could you come pick them up. How did that happened? Nic: In an hour. Liz: It was an hour we have ordered our dinner and it didn’t arrive yet. And the police are calling to say that they have our sons. My eight year old who was in police custody and of course I’m just you know full of uh and it was a great chance to just sit back and ask. I only had to asked ask two questions. ns. Really maybe I think I only to ask one question. And that was all it took. So just kind of troubleshoot shoot that little situation and they are fine they didn’t find themselves into too much trouble. Nic: That is I mean to have that happened I would have be been en at least the last thing you would have expected is sitting for dinner to have the police call. I can only imagine what you thought when you got the call. So look I just want to wrap this up but I did wanted to give you one last opportunity. Because you mentioned that you are passionate about this other thing this other book that you’re working on the other business book. Are you able to give us a hint about what that is and what the time frame do you think is for that? Liz: Well I can. You ou know what I a am m studying is I’m studying experience. And when does experience matter? And more interesting to me is when is being inexperienced a novice? You know a newbie a rookie. When is that more valuable than the experience the knowledge and then finding it's tremendously ndously valuable? And it’s a newest experience is itt relevant and does it matter? And how do we maintain sort of a perpetual rookie mindset. To me it’s really really fascinating. How do you stay on a path of agility and really rapid cycle learning? So I’m having tons of fun with it. And hopefully it will find its way into a book in about a year. Nic: In about a year. Okk alright. We will have to touch base again because I’m sure it will be fantastic. So I really wanted to thank you for taking the time to sha share re all that with us today. And I wish you all the best with the book that is coming up very shortly to be with education and the new one that’s coming out in a year. Liz: Thanks good talking to you I’m a big fan of Harley your son. So tell him I’m sending a book off to him and I just appreciate him teaching and I love to share his blog with people. Nic: Will do
www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
12
THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT: TAPPING THE GENIUS INSIDE OUR SCHOOLS
Liz: Nic Thank You Nic: Ok Liz that’ss great thanks so muc much………
www.influencefaculty.com/blog © 2013 Influence Faculty | All Rights Reserved
13
