Laurel Prevetti Vicki L. Blandin
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APPEARANCE Los catos Planning Conmissioners:
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S:
Mary Badame, Vice Chair Charles Erekson Melanie llanssen
D. Michael
Kane
O'Donnell Joanne Talesfore Tom
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Torlrn Manager:
Laurel Prevetti
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Planning Manager:
Joel Paulson
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Town
Attorney:
Robert Schultz
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Transcribed by:
Vicki L. Blandin (s10) 337-1ss8
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ATTACHMENT 5 25
LOS GATOS pr,ANNrNG COMMTSSTON ro/2l/2}r5
Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines Study Session
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1
P R O C E E D I N G S:
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DAVID WEISSMAN:
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area, or just on the color averaging? VICE CHAIR BADAIvIE; Its can be
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Are tshese comments to be on any
and the wisibilitY
the color averaging
analysis '
I wan! to give one example of affected how any obvious financial conflict of interest has what Davidon wrote in their letter in your packet ' on page DAVID WBISSMAN:
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3, Mr. Abbs discusses Tree 507 as an example of how even a
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tree with a very sparse canopy-his words-can provide
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screening
.
why
select this tsree as an example?
Because
it is
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a major screening tree for the proposed house on Lot 7' but
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I maintain that Tree 607 doesn't have a sparse canopy' and in fact would get around 5o-7ot screening credit under Lee
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,')
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Quintana and my proposed methodology ' want a sparse canopy tree? ilust look at a major
screening tree, Tree 526, seen to the right of labeled Tree 607 in Davidon's provided photo' The tree is actually dif f icul-t tso Pick out, because it's canopy is so sparse as
to be almost transparent. The orange netting in Davidon's photo is easily seen through Tree 627 everl during leaf-out' r.,os GATOS PT,ANNTNG COMMrssroN to / 2t
Hillside
/2ots
Development Standards and Guidelines study session
But more importantly, another reason for Dawidon
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to not tout Tree 62G is because the consulting arborist
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recentsly downgraded its structural rating and preservati.on
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suit.ability to Fair/poor because of the fungal
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wood decay
associated \^rit.h a mechanical injury to its trunk. This fungus could easily kiII
this tree. I asked Mr. Abbs if
he
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rea11y thought the Planning Commission
your blatant deception at using Tree haven't
even. mentioned
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EOZ
t see through
as an example. I
that Tree 607 also has a large
mechanical injury.
Mr. Abbs also contends that. a1l oak trees can be
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wouLdn,
for
at any time of t.he year. Conveniently, he ignores that the consulting arborist said, regarding Tree 602, that this tree and all deciduous tsrees assessed
screeni.ng
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on Highlands should be checked during ifune
t1
their condit.ion.
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wint.er may not reweal whether the tree is even alive or
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as sess
tree during the
dead.
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2r
Checking a deciduous
to better
But. then Mr. Abbs
also says in his letter,
on
I quote, "Davidon bel_ieves every tree should be allowed for screening. " Sounds like that includes even dead
page 2, and
tsrees
.
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LOS GATOS PITANNING COMMISSTON rO/2]-/2O15
Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines Study Session
the Highland's
oak
not doing well because of the droughts, but
you
Mr. Abbs likes to claim
1 2
tsrees are
3
are smart enough to
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Lrave
how
read in jusE about every one of
the consulting arborist's tree reports for each lot that many, many trees have also been impacled by lack of required tree Protection fences, resulting in repeated mechanical injuries, excessive pruning, and compactions by
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heavy equipment and storage
of
hear4l materials under tsree
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canopies.
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IJastly, Davidon would like for us to believe' as j'n they say on page Cwo, thats the life e)q)ecEancy of a lree poor condition can be tshe same as a tree in good condition '
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Could be. but highly unlikely, according Eo the consulting
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arborist who says that poor tsrees can be expected !o
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decline regardless of
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' ClearLy Davidon' given their lrack record, is the Iasts entitsy that you should listen tso when you consider how to improve the Hillside Standards.
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2L
management
VICE CHAIR
any
of
BADAME:
Thank you,
Dr. Weissman.
tshe Commissioners hawe any guesEions
Do
for Dr.
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weissman? Commissioner Kane
.
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COMMTSSIONER KANE:
Dr. weissman, therefore
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whaE would we do? LOS GATOS PT,ANNTNG COMMTSSTON LO/2L/2O!5
Hilfside Developmen! Stsandards and Guidelines study Session
what?
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DAVID WEfSSMAN: Lee Ouintana and
with you a draft ordinance.
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COMMISSTONER KANE:
And
that specifically
addresses your concern? DAVID WEISSMAN:
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I have provided
of
That specifically addresses all
my concerns, and tshe concerns e>q)ressed by numerous
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Planning Commission meetings, the Town Council meeting back
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in May, and going back to what is expressed in the uillside Standards. We have tried to be positive. We have tried to
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be obj ective.
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COMMISSIONER
KANE: This is page 1 of Exhibit 4,
where you gi.ve sewen references to past meetings?
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DAVID WETSSMAN: No.
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COMMISSIONER
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KANE: Let me rephrase that. On page
L of Exhibit 4, you make reference to seven differen! meetings, and I sras at some of those meetings as a planning Commissioner and you remember them
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an impressive piece of work. Thank you. DAVID WEISSI,IAN: Ttrank
Commissioner Kane,
you. No, I
am
referring,
to the pages that are in your packet.
COMMISSIONER
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better than f do. It,s
KANE: The new
one?
DAVID WEISSMAN: Yes.
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LOS GATOS pr.ANNrNG COMMTSSION
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JOEL PAULSON:
1
Just for reference, it's the first
four pages of Exhibit 1 for the
SEudy Session ReporE '
KANE: I've got i-t' Thank you'
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COMMISSIONER
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VICE CHAIR BADAME: Any further questions? Thank
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you, Dr. Weissman. I will now call Steve Abbs to the podium.
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STEVE
ABBS: Hi, good afternoon' I'm Steve
Abbs
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with Davidon Homes . 9
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I have submitted a leEter of correspondence to express our opinions of ( inaudibfe) metshodolog:y ' aasically' in a nutshe11, we acEually think tshe current Hillside Desigm Guidelines work' I think vrhats stsaff is proposing as far as amendmentss to the methodology are good propoEals ' buE I think there is one thing that we need to kno!" ' that we're here for, is Ehat there may be come clarifications to the interpretations of the llillside DeveloPment Standards and Guidelines, but I don't think j-t warrants a fulI rewritse
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or changing of Ehe rules of the guidelines ' Staff is very competent. They're on top of
Arborlst and a Consultsing Arborist that are weII respected and very knowledgeable ' I thinL the Planning Commission should fisten to what they say' They're
things.
You have a Town
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t0/21/21ts Guj'delines and standards Hill-side Development r.,os GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSToN
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the experts and they should have a 1ot of say in how these amendments are proposed.
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Basica1ly thj-s evening f want to make sure that everybody keeps focused on
that the visibility
is standing
on the viewlng plat.form viewing hrith the naked eye. The leveL of detail in looking at Mr. Weissman,s photos, that,s
a phot.o zoomed in from a d.rone; you, re not going to see the 1evel of detail of seeing, leaves, trigs al1d branches. What you are going to see j.s a massing of a tree canopy from
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standing on a vj.ewing, platform wiEh a naked eye. Screening does occur from these very sparse
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trees. I,ve
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shown
in
my
letter that it,s very obvious that
is occurring from the very sparsest. trees with very limited foliage. Then a1so, if you put a house behind screening
those very sparse trees that have an r.,Rv compliant cor-or to them, that earth tone co1or, you,re not goj-ng to see
anything. Right now you barely see very bright orange netting behind Ehese tsrees.
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Another interpretat.ion that I think the planning Commission should discuss tonight j.s the fact of using
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protected oak trees as part of screening. Back in Mayoi Wasserman actually interpreted the Hil,lside
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Development Guidelines
to reduce visibility
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and visible
LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMISSION :-O/2A/20:-5
Hillside Development. SE.andards and cuidefines Study Session
of screen trees ' Councilperson McNutE encouraging that screen trees should be used' The trees that exist out tshere are in poor
impact by the use
1
agreed, 3
is one condition. In the situation we have on l'oE 10' Ehere it tree that was in fair condition when we stsarted design,
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got
't
downgraded
to a Poor condition'
and based on
t be able to suggestions by Mr. Weissman, that tree wouldn't apPlicant be be used. Now, the question is why wouldn't an
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thaE would able to instaLl a brand new Coast Live Oak tree time' they provide immediatse screening? when they grow over
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for provide more screening over time' ft would be better
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tshe
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rt provides betler sustsainability to the of the oak woodland, and its would mitigaEe the visibility for everyone ' But houses. It just seems 1j-ke it's a win-win that I re' SA mi s interpretat ion of landscape screening environment.
the
think
Ehe
Planning Commission should tsaIk about ' Mr' VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thank you very much'
for you ' Abbs. Commissioner O'Donnell has a question heard some COMMI S S IONER O'DONNELL: We've referencestomectranicaldamagetovariousandsundry
25
trees,andlreafizeyouwerenotstshefirstpeopleto these develop this Property, so I don'ts know where us a litt1e bit mechanical injuries came from' Can you tell LOS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION LO/2I/2OA5
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Devel-opment SEandards and Guidelines Study Session
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about what care you used to see t.hat there was no damage tshe
trees while you ilrere workj-ng on it?
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t.o
STEVE
ABBS: The trees that Mr. Weissman
was
referring to on Lot Z were Trees 60? and G26. We have had no construction activity at all on those Iots. Ms. Debbie E11is is here; she can speak to what she has seen as far as what a mechanical injury to that t.ree is, but as far as I know, there hasn,t been any activity on that lot. Agaj.n, Debby E11is can speak
to this, but j-t coul,d have been
a
72
a fa11en 1imb, for alL I know. As far as Davidon is concerned, we have not done any construction actually on
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that. loE to do any damage to these t.rees.
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wound from
The one
thing that Mr. Weissman brings up in this
pl.cture is that yeah, in my letter f didn, t specifically bring up Tree 62G, but the sparseness of Trees GO7 and 62G are exactly the same. The purpose of my letter was to clearly identify a very sparse tree and the fact tshat from a viewing platform it clearly shows a screen of that. t.ree. VICE CHAfR BADAME: Was your quest.ion answered.? COMMISSIONER
O'DONNELL: yes.
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VICE CIAIR BADAME: Thank you, Mr. Abbs. Arry
further questions?
Thank you.
f will- now cal1 Bess Wiersema. LOS GATOS pLANNrNc CoMMTSSTON
to/2:-/2ors Hillside Development Standards and GuideLines Study Session
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BESS WIERSEMA:
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from Studio3
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Hi. You guys know me' I'm Bess'
.
I have a 1ot of clients over the past couple of years that we've been bringing to town, and some of the existing house colors are siginificantly greater in value looking at with
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than the 30 LRv that the
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regard to Hillside standards, and it poses a problem for
Town has been
most of the Projectss tshat we have ' 9
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understsand from
your last study session
tshat
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in terms of-and I could be wrong on this-if 25* ot the house is exposed' then the 30 LRV number sEays intact, buts if less than that is
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exposed
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other tha! that .
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you glrys have considered something
or screened, I just
Ehen you would consider something
wanted
to bring to your attsention some of
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theissueswithLRVthatlhaveaprofessionalproblem
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wi.tsh, and mY clientss do as well '
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first bulIets point, art LRv of 30 or below' Note the house color EhaE is far darker tshan the average colors used in most homes in tshe Los Gatos hillside' at My
least the projects uhbt we are seeing, except those ref l-ective of an antiquated Mountain or old Tahoe type 24 25
r-,os GATOS PT,ANNTNG COMMTSSTON t0 / 2t / 2OLs
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style. I brought
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second,
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of 3 0 or below is inconsistent with certain archit.ectural styles, such as Spanish or Mediterranean, as well as a 1ot of the Craftsmans. I just think it creates kind of a bastardized character from an architectural standpoint. These are styles that. are often
4 5 5 1 8
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color chips I,1.I
show you j-n a
if I have time. An
used 9
some LRV
I_,RV
in hilIside,
their roof pitches are lower, to have to do something that has a color that, s inconsistent with that. tl4)e of home is often a problem. because
so
r also think that the imposition of LRV of 30 or below creates inconsistent character in nei.ghborhoods,
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mostly where we,re doing remodefs or significant additj-ons.
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Most homes
16
that in the
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19
in neighborhoods are significant.ly greater than number.
An LRV of 30 or below is in direct conflict with
the design guidelj,nes, even Sect.ion 1 of the hillside specific one where it says number three, compatsible with
20
the surrounding neighborhood and respectful of neighJ:ors. A 2l Iot of the houses, even most recently one that you guys saw 23
here on Forrest,er Road, aIl of those houses have an
LRV
sitt.ing at 40 or a.bove, and oftsen greater than that.
LOS GATOS pr.ANNrNc coMMrssroN
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Development Standards and Guidelines Study Session 1,1
My thoughts on how
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to
is to consider an LRV of greater than 30 on a proj ect -by-proj ect basis that is in keePing with the i.ntended
neighborhood average
LRV
so that a newer Project doesn't
stand out as a sore thumb. Consider an LRv of greater than 30 if it. is Erue to the architectural sty1e, and therefore
provides further intsegrity of the overall design' Consider a blended LRv concePt for the whole building, and consider the use of further guidelines, such as if tshe project can be seen from viewing platforms, reduced I-'Rv, matching the tshe immediate neighborhood average
quotient to
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LRV
13
addressing materials as part of
have questions. Commissioner Hanssen COMMISSIONER HANSSEN:
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tshats
'
and
color' ' I had her hand up first'
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thank you, Ms' Wiersema
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make tshis concept work as
I understsood aII your
but the proposal that is in the drafted text is to i-ncorporate IrRv averaging, so do you have additional issues qtith the idea of the LRV averaging? I understand a1I
commenEs,
of the points, but f think that was the whole reason Etlat the Town councit wanted to go forward with LRV averaging
for the houses
tstraE
were less than 25? visible'
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BESS WIERSEMA:
But it's an average of what?
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IO/2L/2OI.5 Guidelines and Stsandards Development
L,OS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION
Hillside
StudY Session
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COMMISSIONER HANSSEN:
That,
s one of my questions
tshat I would ask of Staff, but the concept. I mean what j-ssues do you have $rith tshe concept? Because all of your comments
that you just
made were
relative
to...
I thinlc the number is important. We did a quick analysis of just everyone, s houses, even for you gruys sitting up here, and f think Comnissioner BESS WIERSEMA:
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I
O'Donne.Il was 9
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noE
the only one that hit the number; I
know he,s
in a hilIside.
But I think understanding what the number is how the average is taken, is it volume surface area as
visible from the street out of the 25t, just definition around that, because 30 is a pretty heawy_duty nuhber to
15
hit, and very inconsistent with most of our existing
16
neighborhoods.
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and
COMMISSIONER HANSSEI.I:
A fo11ow up question on
that is that you had mentioned color chips. I actua11y did some research on my own and r r.ooked at rrhat LRV values are on the sca1e, and it occurred to me that especially if you were doing gray colors, obviously the lorrrest. LRV is black and we don't really want brack houses in the hillsides. so
f wondered if there is a way to puE
some
LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMISSTON
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Hillside Development Standards and cuidelines Study Session
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1
boundaries
2
want
or definitions around it to
make
it what we
?
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BESS WIERSEMA:
With regard tso color chips' I
just quickly took a pan of people are beige tones'
4
green
tones, and gray tones. They look purple up here' but 5
they'
re (inaudible)
.
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COMMISSIONER
}iANSSEN:
I can't tell what the
LRV
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BEss WTERSEMA: The ones 10
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with the Post-Its on it
are where you frave Eo get to on a regular average cofor
tso
hit at an l,Rv 3 0 . COMMISSIoNERHANSSEN:Soanythj-ngthat'slighter
than that is...
that's to the right of that would not qualify for the LRv ' You have to get a BESS WIERSEMA:
Anything
significantlY dark home ' COMMISSIONER HANSSEN:
Just
my observation
in the
I think case of the blacks and the blues that's the case' over that's b1ue, or it's gray, but as you kind of moved they're not quite as dark, and that' s the thing I j-dea' looking for; that's very helpful to get an
was
VTCE CHAIR BADAME: Commissioner O'Dorrnell ' 24
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IO/2I/2OI5 Guidelines and standards Hil,lside Developmen! S tudy session LOS GATOS PI.ANNING COMMISSION
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COMMfSSIoNER O, DONNELL:
That was very helpful
.
I'm just curious though, I find it hard to deal with this on statutory basis or guideline basis, but we in the past have had sort. of a maximum. We said not above 30 under certaj.n condit.ions, whatever. Do you believe the use of
5
maximum
a
at all is helpful?
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I think that it could be, unless there is a neighborhood definition as part of that BESS WIERSEMA:
character of the neighborhood. ff you
c€rn
prove Ehat the
average LRV of a neighborhood is, say... I think we had it i.n here. An average LRV of the neighborhood that you gnlys most
recent.ly saw on Forrester was 12.4 foy our immediate t4
neighborhood. sorry, r have the wrong nunber. r Ehink a
15
maximum number
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could be used, but f think 30 is too tight.
COMMISSIONER O ' DONI{ELL;
having sat here for a number of years, we don, t take responsib5-lity for what happened before we got. here, so the fact that we might think what got there before we did was something we don,t agree with, I guess we,d like to kind of move on and maybe On
24
The reason I ask you is
not do it the
same way.
the other hand, I hear what
I think it makes sense, but
we,
you,
re saying
and
re going to have to wrestle
LOS GATOS pr,ANNrNG COMMTSSToN ro/21/2OA5
Hilfside Development Standards and Guidelines Study Session
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with that.
1
So we say
there was some simplicity in what
before; that doesn't
suggested
make
was
it right'
But I do think if we had a sha1l not' exceed or 4 5 6
1
I
some
kind of number, it would be helpful ' r heard you
earlier tshrow out 403. buE I don't Iike this thing thats just says if they made a Iot of mistakes in the past' !'e'fl use thats ag our baseline, and that iS $,hat you, re saying. So
let's talk about not that'
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BESS WIERSEMA: Right ' 10 COMMI
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IONER O'DONNELL: Do
you hrave some other
help? BESS WIERSEMA:
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SS
If you could take your immediate
neighborhood and have an average I-'Rv of what those
homes
15
them' were in the neighJrorhood so that you could fit into or lt'hether and you were witshin a ceruain percent of that '
1'l
you want
15
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2t
to call that average the current max' or a median looking number, L think that that's something that's worth at. That way you don't end up with the black hole house in the middle of the neighborhood that's all light tan taupe and whitse. COMMISSIONER
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and
O'
DONNELL: So your view
of
hillsides is we hawe different blotches up there
LOS GATOS PI,ANNTNG COMMTSSToN
tshe
because
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Hillside Devefopment Standards and Guidelines Study session
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1
neighborhoods are different? Average each nei.ghborhood and
you're going to get a different 3 4
number.
I think neighborhoods are different, and I think archj-tectural styfes often ca1l for a different color palette as we11. BESS WfERSEMA:
5
COMMISSTONER
O,DONNELL: Thank you.
7
VfCE CHAfR BADAME: Any
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Commissioner Erekson. COMMfSSIONER EREKSON: Shou1d
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l-3 74
further questions?
we
think about the
roof reflective walue different from the body of the house, as opposed to looking at the total house arrd roof with a single reflective walue? Should we separate those two, what would the desj-gm implications be of doing that?
and
I think that,s worth considering. I also think it should be careful to not just use langmage like on a metal roof that it needs to be an anodized metal BESS l{f ERSEMA:
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roof. There are gruys
roofs; in fact the ones that you grenerally like better are not the ones that are
anodized, but
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ones
many metal
that have a met.aLlic und.ertone that. are the
that have essentially the fE alarms
as s ig'ned 24
of
what
me when
enamel process put. on them.
I see specific
langnrage
specific materials without having an understanding those materials are that are currenE on the market LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSToN
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Hillside Development Standards and Study Session
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for residential projects rights now' so I think some understanding of, yes, roofing could have a different
1
3 4 5 5 7
I
I-'RV
quotient, so it's not a big ref l-ective roof, then the fagade of the house I think is a great way Lo look at it'
r also tshink materials are important ' A suPer smooth stucco is going to look very different tshan a singled house, iust because of shadow and texture that's added, but vre're required to give the LRv that's on the
9
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color chip no matster what. I think there are a lot of things that have to be taken intso consideration, and not just a flat number ' VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thanl< you for your comments '
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Any
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further questions?
ANGELIA DOERNER:
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2L
up' Angelia
Doerner '
Hel1o' I'm Angelia Doerner'
a
of the Almond Grove ' I'm here because this is maybe going to throw a IittsIe wrench into something, or aE least I think warrantss of the some consideration ats this workshop, is page three Staff Report referring specifically to Items 3-5' witsh
wery proud resident
rooftop colors, metal surfaces,
tinting
arrd
mj'rror like window
.
when 24
Thank you ' Next
I
was here
last
tsime abouts Asseribly
2188 concerning new provisions about rooftop
solar
BilI systems'
I.,OS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION LO / 2I / 2Oj.5
Hillside Development scandards and Guidelines s
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3
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f start.ed thinking-and f can already hear some oh darns over there-but I started thinking about. how this applies to our hj-Llside homes and how you,re going to be dealing with allowing or approving or deEermining whether some of these rooftop solar systems could be causing significant issues or contradictions with what we have in our Hillside Standards.
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Specifically what I think could be considered is that. cited in Section 3, paragraph G5850.5(b) in Asse ibly Bill 2188. They do give the authority to the Town to address or apply for a use permit if they can prove that there's a specific adverse impact upon the public health and safety of the Town, and what I,m concerned about is rooftop systems. You guys do
wonderful color that merges with the hiLLside and the environment. Someone puts up a solar system that provj-des
glare directly 20
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a g.reat job, you put up this
down Highway 17
r^ri
th the brightest sun
a
and
blinding drivers. There, s always discussion here about the lights and the windows and how that, s going to be shining at night and be visible. What about. visibility day with solar systems alI over tshe roofs?
during
tshe
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LOS GATOS Pr_,ANNTNG
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Study Session
19
I'm just throwing this out as something that I
1
thinkcouldbeconsidered,orshouldbeatleasttshought to abouts, and using tshaE particular reference in the bill
3
the building permit process
4
see
5
that you can tsake a harder look from Ehese same viewing platforms and the same other things that you're talking safety about novit to make sure that those kinds of public
5
7
I
if there's
some way around
issues aren't encountered '
9
vrcE 10
11
l2
MS.
CHAIR B.ADAME: Do $'e
have any questions for
I Doerner? Seeing none, tshank you for your comments '
wilf now call Mr. Harris to the
Podium '
15
HARRIS: My name is Sandy Harris and I'm we have a here in regard tso the home on Drysdale' r know color code assocj-ated wiLh the hillsides' whi'ch I agree
15
with completely,
13
l4
L7 18 19
SANDY
at the hillside and painted their you trave st,reet sig"ns up there where people houseswhiEeandveryreflectivecolors,rthinkitbrings down the integrity of our hillsides' But what I'm not sure of is that same application
20
2r
appl led enougtr
23 24
because when you look
to houses that aren't visible' they're do!'n fow as where nobody can actually see them ' It appears
purpose ' though ttrats same regulation, because of that by being implementsed on houses that can never be seen
is
!o/2t/2OL5 Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMrssroN
StudY Session
20
1
3
4 5 6 1
I
anybody other than the people who
live on the specific
street that they, re one, or j-t, s on a street that nobody would ever go to unless you did live there type thing, and it's not a thoroughfare to go anywhere. But I just hrant. to see if there is possible consideration that could be given for houses in that regard as far as trying to hold them Eo the wire on the 30 LRV. I
that was implemented to st.art with, which is agreeable and I think I,m very, very happy they did that, know why
9
10
11 L2 13 14 15 16
t'7 18 1-9
20
if they had put that into effect m.rny years ago we wouldn't be looking at all those bright houses up on the hi11side. But if there is possible consideration that. could because
be given for houses that are visible only to the people who Live on the street that they, re on, I woul-d appreciate some
sort of consideration like that, if it,s possible that grrys would think about that. VICE CHAIR BADAME: Anything
you
further? you sti1l
have time 1efts. Commissioner Erekson has a question for you.
2! COMMISSIONER ERBKSON:
24
Trying to understand what
you're proposing to us. Are you proposj-ng a Town_wide standard of a certain maximum reflective vaIue. or for all
LOS GATOS PT,ANNING COMMISSION
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1
the
2
hi 1f s ides
3
4 5 6
whether they're
homes ?
SAIiIDY
10
11
HARRIS: No,
all the homes thac are visible
in the hillside shouldn't be reflected' They shouldn't be somelhing that you have tso look at that house all the time' because you can't help it, it's reflecting back at you and
7
I
visible or not visible in the
demonstrating
to you that it's there'
But I'm suggesting if you have a house that is
not visible from anywhere, and it's not up in the hillsides, and the only way someone is ever going tso see i.t your home or go to
13
is if they drive uP Your street to your neighbor's home, because it's
t4
arrlmhere, I'm iust wondering j-f there' s consideration that
15
can be given for tshats siEuatsion'
I
16
knot^,
go tso nots
a thoroughfare going
what the guideline waE put in place for'
l1
because of all the street signs we have all over lhe
18
mor]rltains with people painting the houses colors thats
19
20 27
t nature's true colors- And I'm not saying someone is going to paint a house pink or !'hj-te or whatever' but I'm
weren'
justs saying that 30 is hard to find a color that reaIly
fits
some
designs and architecture of houses' And j-f it's
not in an area where it's not visible and nobody can see 25
LOS GATOS PI-,ANNING COMMISSION IO/2I/20]-5 Hil]side Deve l opment. standards and Guidelines
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it, f'm.asking if there, s a possibly there could be consideration given t.o that specific type of a case.
3
VfCE CHAfR BADAME: Commissioner Kane.
4
COMMISSIONBR
KANE: Mr. Harrj.s, you and f go
way
back. 6
SANDY
HARRIS: yes, sir.
7
COMMISSIONER
I 9
10
11 1' 13 14 15
15 L7 18
liberty. What f,m hearing is if a tree falls in the forest and one j-s there, wil-l- it make any noise? ff I,m going .no
up in the hillsides, why would I want a pin]( and blue and orange house? You just said well I,m sure nobody would want
to paint it that way, but if we,lower the standard we get pink and blue and oraige house, possibly. Why wouldn,t I i'rant to have the hillsides continually rustic and
2L
I want that? SANDY
HARRIS: Okay, you asked me a question. If
I would take you around the various areas that are considered hillsi.des in the Tor,rn of Los Gatos... COMMISS]ONER
SANDy 24 25
a
respectful of everything the Hil1side Guidelines provide? It's not a rhetorical question, it, s like real]y, why woutd
r9 20
KANE: So f,m going to take fittle
the
Town
KANE: And you have.
HARRIS: yes. There are lots of areas in
of Los Gatos that
you,
re never going to have to
LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSION rO/2!/2OA5
Hillside Development Standards and cuidelines Study Session
23
1
take a look at unl,ess you know someone there and you're going tso their specific house, and those houses, most of them
4
5 6 7
I
There's this new standard put in to where it has to be 30 or below, which tshe house, I don't know if you've seen many 30
or belows. buts there are
nots
a lot of colors you
c€rn
rea1ly pick in that arena and have a house that's conducive tso
10
are fairly consistent $rith each other color-wise'
certain architecture stsyIes or
dark. I can r:nderstand having
whatsever, because
some
it's
so
regrrlation in place thaE
13
affects our community, because that's what we're about is our community, but not isolati'ng someone that it doesn't affect anybody else other than the people who live on the
14
street and the people, if
15
and nobody else can see
16
thoroughfare of anY kind where you can't go anywhere other
L7
than to those PeoPIe's houses, I'm just saying it would
18
nice if there was
19
specific case.
11 L2
20
2L
some
VICE CHAIR Commissioner Kane
tshey
it, and it's not a major be
sort of .ur exception for that
BADAME:
Anything furEher,
?
22
COMMISS
are happy with the color'
IONER I(ANE
:
No, tshank you.
23
VICE CHAIR
BADAME:
Thank
you. I will now call
24
25
Dennis &azzar i tso the Podium. IO/2I/2OL5 Guidelines and standards Hillside Development StsudY session I,OS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION
24
1 2 3
4 5 6 7
I
DEaINf
S RAZZARI : 'Madam Chair, Menibers of the
Commission, I'm Dennis Razzari, Davidon Homes.
I wanted to
briefly on the tree issue as wel1. as I may be alcle to add some insight for you, if time al,lows or you want to bring me back, regarding the color tsouch
average, because that, s what we did do also up Highlands project and maybe why this item
again tonight
at the
is before
you
.
9
But.
10
with regard to the trees, the Hillside
11
Development Standards and Guidelines were adoptsed
L2
January 2004. Por almost L2 years now they,ve served pretty
in
effectively for the Town, and recently with our proj ect. it l-ike a l-ot of attention has been drawn to them. It,
1-4
seems
15
been drawn
16
of the lang"uage
L7
to
them because
of
some
However. what. Dr. Weissman has recommended this
evening as
).9
further introduces
20
are interpreted. I think staff has
,)
far as revising the
more ambigrrity
with the addition of the
for them I think
Langruage
into
how t.hose guidelines
done
a phenomenal job
language.
As Mr. Abbs indi,catsed a1so, the vigibility 24
25
some
.
18
,1
of the ambiguity of
s
from
the viewing platforms at the distances that are involwed, and
the use of a
500mm
lens and a
3OOmm
1ens is more than
LOS GATOS pr,ANNrNG COMMTSSION
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Sess j-on
25
1
adequate
2
product
3
4
in
detsermining how
visible
tshose
ambiguity as to r.rhere is the vantage point? vle've had enough discussion and argrrment over the viewing platforms'
the vantage points are from
fet alone
6
which you're going to view this project'
now determinj-ng where
'7
Davidon has spent
10 11
13 14 15 15 L1 18 19
20 21-
lars on the four
tshousands of
homes thats we
it around, it's a very tedious and onerous task' and an expensive task, for a private party to endure ' So I would caution you on that, because I think you need to welcome your applicantss into the Town ' nots justs developers. Maybe not developers at all, if you choose ' but your owners that are building custom homes or homes in the
to
move
hillside, you want to be able tso work with them and have a language and stsatute tshat is interpreted, clear, defined' and
I think that
session 23
titerally tens of
recently had before you' j'n arrd and for a privatse partsy on a single-family to come do that and then we challenged as to that's not the correct vant age point, that's not the correct viewing platform, and
dol 9
s are, or the
is. To tsake it to a vantage point introduces
5
I
home
rrras Eo
thats was
the intent of what Ehis study
do, to geE langnrage that is not
To take trees and evaluate them as
ambiguous '
to
whetsher
their health is good, poor or great is an j'nterpretation I,OS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION LO/2I/2O].5
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Developments standards and Guidelines
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25
1
3
4 5 6
that should be
l-ef
t to the consulting arborj-st. To then
take that tree and say it, s only worth 60* value because of its character I think adds more ambiguity into it. To take a calculation around it. where f.or L2 years it sufficed at 25t, and now introduce an average where 25t is now goj-ng to be brought down to 24.52, is again, a change that is not
7
necessary. It has worked, and with the clarity that. Staff 8
9
10
11
has recommended, I think it works very we11. f tshink what
staff has
is appropriate language to
be
adopted. ThanJt you. VICE CHAIR
L2 13
recommended
BADAME:
Thank you. Questions?
Commissioner Kane .
t4
COMMISSIONER
KANE: For you and Mr. Abbs,
I
was
15
there
15
was. I remember
11
r had an issue with the priority of foliage, that there was a primary set of st.andards for houses in the hills, as secondary and then tsertiary considerations. I
18
19 20 2L
24
don't
this language; at least f think I the sixties, so I cErn remember tshat.
when we developed
if the
or even Ehe To!,rn Council at that time agreed or supported the notion that I had that a tree could be a fleeting thing, bushes, foliage could be a fleeting thing, and that it was an amelioration, a tert.iary know
Commission
25
LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMISSION
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Hillside Development Standards and GuideLines Study Session
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1
consideration to bring in Erees as realIy perrnanently
2
affecting the 24.5-25t. I
4
5 6
ritas
thinking
when you spoke
earlier, Mr'
Abbs,
the question is-I have to ask you questionsdo you know if there's a law requiring a homeowner to put up a giant oak tree that just feII
down due
to naEural causea, which oak
7
tree blocked 50t of the house? Now what do we do? So that's I how I assigrred a terEiary consideration to trees when 9
10
11
ta]king about visibiJ-ity. I've been here for 30-something years, and it doesn't look like its used to look. Maybe the down and we need language saying you have tso
L2
trees all feII
13
put up an exact replica, which wouldn't be very practicaf'
L4
But that' s a question.
15 16
t7 18 19 20
is to foliage having to do with visibility, that's in the hands of God, that's temporarily. It could be overnighE; it could be 50 years ' But what if it. all falls down and I can see the white house When
you give
emphas
with a 50 LRv from 20 milee awaY. DENNIS RMZARI: I don't
know
that
tshere
is
any
2L
law within the Town's statutes that requires a tree to be
22
replaced. I can tsell you that in the brief period of time
23 24
25
that Davidon has owned the ltighlands propertsy, we ttave Eeen a number of rated healthy trees, both within the I-,Rv areas LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION LO/2I/2O]-5
Hil-l-side Development Standards and Guidelines StudY Session
28
1
and outside of the LRV areas, that have falfen completely.
2
Some
3
plain keeled over and dropped. We,ve had sudden limb drop
4
off of a
5 6 7
I 9
10
due to windstorms and st.orms, buts some thaE have just
number
of trees that are in healthy vigor.
Mr. Abbs indicated earlier that the Commission should consider the opportunity or allowance of
tshe
plant.ing of oak trees, native trees, within the area.
The
Highlands in particular I think has been rated as a second
growth, or a later growth, forest, and so the trees up
11
there may not be in the best of health. f don,ts know if
L2
harvesting is the correct word for it, but they are
13
secondary growth trees and as a result they don, t have the
14
vigor and strength of the original tree. If
15
supplement that forest., that oak woodland forest, by
15
planting box tsrees, and significantly sized box trees is
L7
what we would suggresE, you can augment the screen of the
18
house and you're introducing healthy species and varieties
19
back into the oak woodland forest that are not second or
20
later generation growlhs, that add vigor and health to the
2L
forest in general, and
22
CoMMISSIONER
carn supplement
we,
re able to
lhe screen.
KANE: A brief follow up, buE not
Eo
23
belalcor the point. I said what. if? Vihat. if that massive oak 25
tsree comes down at the hand of God, lighting,
storm,
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMTSSTON L0/2r/2}]-s
Hillside
Development. Standards and Guidelines
Study Session
)q
t-
wonderful house 3 4
Francisco. Irihat's going to moti.vate me putting up..' You get my
point? This is how I'd put foliage in a tertiary light
to protecting the hillsides and reducing I can't depend on a "temporary tree" that a visibility. homeowner is just not going Eo lose sleep over repJ-acing if
when 6 '7
I
just paid tripJ-e the money for this on the hillside, and suddenly I can see San
vrhatever, and I' ve
i,ts
its
comes
fal1s
down
to
man.
and then Ehey have one
of the greatsest views
9
l-0
11 L2 13
known
I thiDk current,ly the Town does have policy that if a tsree fa1ls, and this tras occurred on our site where a tree has falIen, a Tree Removal Permit is DENNIS
RAZZARI:
15
sti11 required, and j.n cases where its has happened a Tree Removal Permj.t is required with tree mitigation that is
15
appli.ed
14
l7 18
t9 20
2l 22
23 24 25
to
tshats
.
To address your concern,
I chink the trees
thats
we're proposing to be used as screening can potentsially have some tyPe
of
deed
rest,riction or
something on
that 1ot
if there is a tree thaE faIIs that the homeowner does have someone on title Ehat tshat tree does have to be replaced. so there is a potential 1ega1 option that can be
where
if a tree does faL1. a Tree Removal Permi! is regu.ired, ald miEigation is required. implemented. but currently
I,OS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION LO/2I/20]-5 Hillside DeveLopments Standards and Guidelines
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30
1
COMMISSIONER
KANE: Let,s go to Staff and find
out from staff. 3
JOEL PAITLSON: Correct
4
COMMISSIONER
.
KANE: What is?
t
JOEIJ PAITLSON: 6
Removal Permit
That if a tree falls,
a Tree
is required, and mitigation replacement is
7
required. 8
COMMISSIONER 9 10
a
homeowner who
KANE: I did nots know thats. Even on
has been there a while?
iIOEL PAULSON: On any
11
property.
13
COMMISSIONER KAIiIE: fs it a reptica tree, or a . certain box Eree, or a tree that will eventually develop
14
into the tree that fell
L2
down?
JOEL PAULSON:
15
It,s a number of box trees
based
16
on the table in the Tree Ordinance, so depending on the
l7
canopy size of the tree before it fe11.
18
COIiIMISSIONER
19 20
2t
ROBERT
KANE: Thank you.
SCHULTZ: On
top of that, it is certainly
to put. in, through a deed restriction, Conditions of Approval thaE require the maintenance of landscaping or screening; I,ve seen those done also.
possj.ble
23
COMMISSIONER 24
KANE: Do we regularly do that?
25
LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSTON t0/21/20:-5
Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines Study Session
31
ROBERT
1
SCHIILTZ: No,
I don't think
we have up to
this point . 3 4
I would just of f er that prior to when I arrived the Town used to do five-year tree ,JOEL PAITL,SON:
5
maintenance agreementss with property owners '
6
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Any
7
further questions?
Commissi.oner Talesfore.
8
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: 9
10 11
arrived the
to
18 19
20 a1
' so they planted or was parE of the approval, they
had
ttrat its survived for five years' COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: And the Town tsook it
make sure
15
11
did t/rhat, and can you e>eri,ence,
mainly for forestry in estimating c.rnopy density, and these
are like a lj.ttl-e chart that you wiIJ- see v'here it's like circle that's fil-led in completely black; that's 100? densi.ty. Then they'11 start punching little white holes in it, and they have a series where they'1J' say this is 100*'
15
here's 80t, here's 60t, here's 4Ot' Mainly in forestry use that tlPe of a chart to try to be more objective'
16
particularly
t4
).'l 18
19 20
2r
,)
a
between
different
observers
COMMISSIONER HANSSEIiI:
tshey
'
I ask because I tshink
one
of t,he suggestions that has been made by the public is to incorporate the idea of sparse canopies into whether it's included in a wiewing, and so r just wanted to know what went behind it.
you're saying yes, there is a standard out there for forestsry, and although you haven't, because of al} your e)q)erience and you' re not doing forestry per se' So
I.,OS GATOS PI,ANNING Hilfside Deve foPment
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standards and Guidelines study session
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1
but if you tranted to rely on that you could use something like that?
3
ETLIS: Sure, and I would be happy to look that up and send iE to you, if you Iike.
4
DEBORAI{
5 5
't
I 9
10
11
t2 13 74 15 16
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thank you. Any
further
questions for the Town Arborist? Thank you, Ms. E11is.
I will look to the Commissioners to see if they have any comments on the color averaging. Commissioner O' Donnefl
.
COMMISSIONER
O,DONNELL:
I,m the one that, s going
to leave at 5:30, so before I do leave I did want to throw out a couple of thoughts. I think what
we,
re hearing today is very helpful
.
I also think the complexity of what lre,re hearing today makes it very difficult to adequately draft sometshing that
L7
will apply in all circumstances.
18
Starting with that, f think the Staff has done a good job, and the beautsy of what. the St.af f has done I think
19
20
27
24
is to take something that has worked.
We
can critj,cize from
time to time, but it has worked. What Staff is proposing is more than fine-tuning, but it,s less than totally redoing.
I tend towards that, because there, s nothing to prevent
us
LOS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION 1-O/2I/20:-5
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1
from continuing hoPefullY to
2
I just start with Ehat thought.
5
that they have and Ehat are set forth in their report of Octsober 21"E, I justs want !o make a couple of comments '
6 7
I
changes as necessary. so
secondly, when I look ats the specific proposals
3
4
make
On page
2 we Ealk about the instal]aEion of story
poles and aIl- tshat kind of tshing, and we get inEo two areas
L2
at least which are faj,rly complex, one of which is viewing platforms versus vantage points. As far as I'm concerned' the viewing platforms have not been perfect; we know that' we've seen examples of i't. On the other hand, I wouLdn't
13
want
9
10
11
L4
to throw tshat out. what is being proposed here is
15
locations as
16
Developments
L1 18
deemed
appropriate by the
thats other
Community
Di-rector could be used, which r think makes it
biE easier !o use this, because we are trying to preserve our views and the tsrees and all that ' On the other
a little
l-9
hand, we're not passing a law that says there will- be
20
furtsher building in hilts. If we are, then it
21-
everything much simpler, nobody has
22
tso
no
makes
waist a bunch of
trying to come in. So if the communi tsy Development Director has this leehray, tshen I think we ge! around some of tshe problems
money 23 24
LOS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION IO/21'/20j.5
Hillside Development
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4 5 6
that were recently addressed to us, such as the Chevron station blocking things, so I kind of like Ehat suggestion. As far as the reflectivity, that,s real-ly trou.blesome to me. On page 2, we use a visible home as
defined as 24.5E.
On page
3, we talk about, ..Exterior
colors sha1l not exceed a reflectivity
value of 30.,, I
7 8
9 10
11 L2 13 L4 15 16 1'7
18
think the suggestion on the bottom of page 3, t.hat the averaging be allowed except t,o tshe extent the home is
more
than 25? visible perhaps is an improvement. I don,t Like the facE that you look at individual neighborhoods in the
foothills and tailor it by group of housing, group of housing, because that doesn,t help the general view. I think hopefully the averaging will help a 1ot. I do think there is some reason to believe that maybe averaging will not solve that 30* issue, but it may be improved by averaging. I don'E know srhat you come up with
rather than 303, because in
many cases
tha! 30t is fine,
j.n
some cases, maybe
20 2L
not. I don't know how t.o deal with that however, and so I,m just going to leave it with saying if tshe SEaff has any thoughts on how we
types of housing, 24
hre
deal with specific
heard about that_type, styles, thats
kind of t.hing-that the reflectivity value of 30* is rea11y unfaj-r to the design and the 30? does not benefit the LOS GATOS PTANNING COMMISSION 1,0/2I/2O!5
Hillside Devefopment Standards and Guidelines Study Session
53
viewing chat much, we might want to consider some other rather language to deal with that' But for the moment I'd
1 2
be conservative and stay with the 3ot' but use the average As far as the solar goes, because thats was I
3
4 5
thought a good
6
address '7
point
we should address,
a questsion Eo the
'
I would really
Town Attsorney '
If I understand the speaker, the speaker said
we
8
reguire would have the rights under certain circumstances Eo
9
a use permit, buts the standards r heard her asserting of
10
11
hea].thandsafetydidn,tseemtohelpmeverymuchwhenit
13
comestsoaesthetics.somyquestsionsimplyisifweassume for tshe moments that it is restsrictsed to health and safety'
l4
which
15 15
!7 18
is not very hetpful, unless"' one example she used is blinding drivers as they come down tshe street' which has got tso be a Iittle rare. How much leeway' if at all' do we solar? have i.f the legislature is saying gee whiz' we love let's What ability do we have to say sofar is fine' but question' keep j-t so it isn't very ref l-ective? That's the
20
2L
ROBERT
SCHIILTZ: None'
COMMISSIONER O' DONNBLL: None?
' But we will soon' the the Planning Commission, really, I can't thj'nk of one in as part of a residentsial two years, and I asked ROBERT SCHIJLTZ: None
24
25
'Joe1,
LOS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION LO/21'/2OI5
Hillside Development standards and Guidelines StudY Session
54
1
project, they don't put the solar on there; after the fact
2
is
when
3 4
5 5
the solar comes in. We
make
are developing a policy in-house to try to
certain we capture those ones that
come forward
for
the solar that. have to be processed within three days over the counter in some (inaudible) , that the ones that are in
7
the Historical District and the ones that will in
t.he
8 9
10
hilIside, we'11 put an extra eye on them to there isn't something that we can do.
We
make
can
certain
recommend
11
changes that don't lncrease the cost by more than 91,000
r2
under it.
to
come
Erom an
internaf standpoint, we,re going to try
up with a policy that we try tso catch t.hose and
we
74
try to fook at them from the hifLside if they, re going to
15
be visible, and see if we can't make changes and get the
15
applicant to understand the importance of the reflection.
17
Maybe we'11
find it. I'm sure there are ones
on
18
Ehe
19
vlsually unappealing, but I don't believe any of them are
20
going to be blinding from a health and safety issue. I
hillside right now that have sofar that might
be
donrt see that as a toof that we can use to go Ehrough the use perrnit. COMMISSIONER 24
O'DONNELL:
That's kind of what I
thought, and I appreciate that, but f al-so assume t.hat
tos GATos PT,ANNTNG COMMISSTON L0/21,/20]-5 Hiffside DeveLopment Standards and Guidelines Study Session
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ta
3
4 5 6 7 8
Staff, even if a person came in with the whole package, i.e. the house, and said we're going to have solar, notwithstanding the limitsations of your ability, lt doesn't prevent you from saying that's pretty darned visible, can you do something? Because
I find a lot of our applicants
are pret.tsy responsible, reasonable people. So we may not able to say you must do it, but we could say here's
be
how
other peopte have done it, it would be much better for you,
9
10
your neighbors, and tshe community. So those are mY onIY comments.
11
ROBERT
12
SCHULTZ: We've
actually had a few in the
they're not on the homes, they're actually
13
hilfside
14
on the ground, so we've had those, and as long as those are
15
setbacks, then tshose can meet tshe reguirements also and
r-6
then we woul-dn't have that issue. L,ike you said, most
L7
applicants are very reasonable to try to
1S
different solution. If it's not going to be more than $l-, OOO cost. then lve can recommend it and require it.
19
20 2L
where
COMMISSIONER
COMMISSIONER
24
25
up with
a
DONNEL,L: Thank you.
VICE CTIAIR BADAME: COMMiSSiONCT KANE.
22 23
O'
come
KANE: Comm.issioner O'Donne11, you
shouldn't be so shy. It sounded fike a motion to me. At least it works for me. But since it's not a motion, before I-,OS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION IO / 2I / 2OI5
Hillside Development sEandards and Guidelines StsudY
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56
1
it
2
average 308, because somewhere f read there was a concern
3
about the average 308 insofar as most of Ehe trim being
4
fl,at black and the roof being flaming orange and it
becomes a motion
I,d like to discuss your view on the
averaged outs to 30t. If we want to consider 6
8
flexibility
some
on that, we should have a sine-que-non
maximum,
an average of 308, but at no point shal1 any material exceed 35*.
9
The average concerns me. The poj.nt was made it
10
11
could be 5, 5, 5 and GO, and so that. comes out to now we, re back to averages again, getting ourselves in trouble.
13
Flexibility
could have limits, but. nothing an)rwhere to
14
exceed 35E. Maybe we, re again going to shoot ourselves in
15
the foot, but if we desire the flexibility
16
the word "averager,, then we should have a
t7 18
2L
22 23 24
max as we11.
Tom, I thinl< the rest of what you did is a basis
for a mot.ion. COMMISSIONER
20
on tshe 3Og and
O'
DONNELL:
Let
me Eay two
things.
One, I agree wj.th what you just said about you
don't want to average if something is 5t. You can get carried
away
100E and something
is
with that, so I would agree
that that should be addressed.
LOS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION IO/21./2OI5
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secondly, however, this is a sludy session, and
of the Eession is we really ought !o just ualk its out and receive all the inputs, take it home, and perhaps ask staff, as I already have, and you impliciEly are asking staff, to make some more suggestions to us, and
my understanding
then when I comes before us at a regular meeti'ng, we'11 feef... We were asked to do this before and we felt not prepared. My understanding is this meeting is to help us be
9
10
prepared, not to make motions.
vIcE
11
COMMISSIONER
L2 13
CITAIR BADAME: Commissioner Kane '
KANE: Okay, my bad' Howewer'
everything he said should be wri.tten
down'
The other consideration was brought up by
L4
15
speakers and some of the text that we hawe where we talk
16
about the 24.52. Again, we're getting ourselves into
L7
18
19
trouble with averages, because I made tshe note that Bobby could put up a hut that's 100E visible, and no, he can't do that, and
somebody could puE up
a
Cov, PaLace
and only 24*
20
of its was visible. So if Staff could come up with a 2! bril1iants way of also having a cap similar to the cap on 23 24
25
guidance language the LRVs, a cap on maas or visibility, that cannot be hacked and hewed over time and turn ou! to
be nothing but watered down sentsiment ' Stay with the 24'58 LO/2I/2OI5 Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines study session I-,OS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION
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1
if that's
2
14 square foot of bright orange be seen. I don,t have the language myself, but I know where percentages can get us j.n
3
4 5 6
what
we
want, and but in no case shall more than
trou.bIe, and we have some very large homes at 24.999999*, coincidentally, and they can been seen from Milpitas. So that's my concern with percentages.
'7
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thank 8
9
10
13 14 15 15
ahead. COMMISSTONER HANSSEN:
I
I looked through this
a bunch of comments, and I wanted to just share some of the things that I thought maybe needed to be addressed. First of all, I went back and reviewed the existing Hillside Development St.andards and Guidelines in relationship t.o these tswo sections, and compared to vrhat we have now, what, s proposed right now is infinitely
18
restrictive,
20
2t 22
and
made
\7
19
Kane.
Commissioner Hanssen, did you have your hand up? Okay, go
11
!2
you, Commissioner
maximum
less
and I wondered how we i,rere getting by with the
reflectivity
value of 30 on all components of the
house, because that, s what the language says now, and if
we
actually have houses that are out of compliance, or maybe this is relative to new houses. That would one comment I had.
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSTON 1O/2\/20:-5
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The second commenE I had is relative to the
1
3 4 5 6 ,7
8
calculation the proposed language talks about using the color averaging with the exception of any houses tshat are more than 25* visibl-e- So what happens tso tshe houses that
are more than 25& visible? Do they default to the old standard of notshing more than 3Ot? That was another question I had, and maybe I should just throw out al'] the questions before you answer each one of them' or do you
9
10
want to anstrler lhem af ter? VICE CHAIR BADAME: Can
11
t2 t-3
ft depends upon how many you have, because f Commissioner o'Donnell has to leave at 5:30' COMMISSIONER
L4 15
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN:
20
that's okay'
because
Do you want me
to stop
so
he can ask?
18
L9
O'DONNELI': But
know
I intend to catch up on what I'm going to miss'
15 L7
I interrupt real guickly?
VICE CIIAIR
opportunity to
bow
BA-DAME
: No, I was giving him an
out right now, but he's not' so go
ahead.
21-
COMMfSSIONER
O'DONNELL:
I'm staying for another
minute. 23
COMMISSIoNER HANSSEN: 24
25
Getting back to the color
averaging, I wondered if there wasn't a need for
some
Lo/2r/20as Hj.Ilside Developments Standards and Guidelines r..,os GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSTON
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1
definition about how the averagj-ng was to be done relative to is it alL of the surface area of the home, and then you
3
take an
I_,RV
value for each piece of it and then do a
weight.ed average, or how does the calculation work? 5
6 7
I 9
10 11
And Ehen relative t.o the actual colors that are
used, there, s reference to blending in with the natural vegetation, so does that mean that we need to consider
eliminating certain colors, for example, I mentioned ear1i,er, black? Maybe gray is okay, but not black. Maybe we don't say j-t because it,s defined as fitting in with the natural environment and it, will automatica).1y catch that,
I3
but f did wonder if there were any colors that shouLdn,t
L4
permi tted?
Then on tshe average
15 16 L7
itself,
I wondered if there
shouldn't be-I think Commissioner O,Donnell mentioned this_ a maximum, because I was looking at some of the colors,
18
like yel1ow and stuff,
19
awerage of all the colors, but maybe you don, t want the
20
2r
24
25
be
maximum IJRV
that you,d have an
window t.rim to be bright ye11ow, because in a square
footage weighted average you could in tsheory have yel1ow windows other than it doesn, t fit in with the environment,
but it
t violate the average. So I wondered if there shouldn't be Like the average can,t be more than 30, and wouldn,
IJOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSTON
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also no single measure could be more than, I don't know ' 50, 50, ?0, whatever mighE be an appropriate nudber ' Then on the
3
4 5 6
solar thing, in addition
tso
the solar
r have been taking a 1ot of course work in sustainability at Uc Davis, and when we went over t'his whole thing with roofs the encouragement is to do I-'RV systems
1
values that are much, much higher than 30, becauge if you I can't do a solar systerL.. So then it made me think should v'e
10
11
just ignore that because we don't want to affect visibilj'ty in tshe hillsides, or should we consider lt because of the value of the sustaina-bi1iEy, which is clearly defined in
74
the Hillside SEandards. I thought it put you on both sides of the issue and I wondered if we shouldn't think more
15
abou! that for tshe roofs in Partsicular' And then again' maybe it wouldn't be more than a maximum, but cfearfy with
l1
under 30 you wouldn't be abfe to do any sustainability wj-th
18
your roof, because it's going to be too dark' And I think
13
19 20
2L
that
was
it. VICE CHAIR BADAITIE: fharrk you, Commissioner
HEulssen. comnigsioner Talesfore.
I don't know where to go. I hawe Eo many; tshis is going to be a Iot' CoMMISSIoNER TALESEoRE:
24
25
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I think what I,m going to do, if I don.t get through this, I may submit some comments _
3
4 5
feel free to and we,l-1 incl-ude that in the next
JOEL PAULSON: Any Commissioner
submit written corunents
can
Planning Commission meeting.
5
COMMISSIONER TAIJESFORE: 7
I 9
But in the beginning, r
just wanted to say I look at this and I go what is our purpose and our inEent? And that is what is our purpose
i,n
10
looking at what we have here, but more holistic,
11
our purpose and intsent as far
L2
commissioners and people who make decisions? Wtro are
13
making the decisions
74
rea11y weighs. we are stewards of tshis town and al-L of the
15
documents
15
for the hillsides, and also for a Lot of other areas in town, historic areas.
L7
l-8 19
20 2). 22
24
that
for,
as
what is
being planning we
and what are the benefits? That
we have before us, and we have
very st.rong
documents
I think it was brought up, I heard a couple of comments tonight that reminded me that. when we move int.o certain areas of our town we rea11y have a responsibilitsy to maintain the areas that $re are moving into. Ttri s is a long lead into this, but here iE is. If I moved into the Almond Grove area and I move into a historic home, I,m going to have standards that I have to adhere to, but f LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMTSSION
do
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Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines Study Session
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willingly
1
thaE
2
to me, that's
4 5 6
I
wanted tso
my purpose and
If I
3
because
move
into
tshe
live there, and so chats
I wil-1 do that' hillsides, it
comes
with
a
just whole document Ehat people put Eheir lives into' as we heard from Ms. Quintana and otsher people on tshat committee' and t,he commissioners at that Eime, a whole plethora of
1
people. So for me, tshat comes with the resPonsibility tshat I I would love to l-ive here because it's a special place to 9
10
11 L2 13 14
15 16
live, but I'm hoping that the people that move in there understand tshat when you wants to liwe among the trees and the hills and the birds and all the other animals ' that we're trying to have you live there in a way that doesn't impact the hillsides tshemselves, and hopefully not all of
the animals that live thele, and that also don't impact the people here on the va11eY floor. Now why
L7
is that important?
BecauEe
in every other
18
documentsinourtowntshosehillsidesareourbackdrop.They
19
are the crown jewel of where we 1lve, and I can't te1l you how muctr it hurts me when I see tshings not as we intended
20
2L
.))
that people will understand s'hen they move into these areas to please take with you that responsibility that aren't you lucky to be abfe to live them
to be.
We
hope
24
25
here? So
that's
mY
lead in.
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1
3
4
5 7
I
Let's just go to color averaging. f,m very passj-onate about $rhat f do up here. I don,t believe that there's anybody in this room that can rea1Iy taLk to us about color averag.ing. I understand coIor. I don,t.
know
that I could real1y understand this. There are coLor e>q)erts that make their living analyzing co1or, and so if we're going to move away from what we have here, what has t.o work all these years-except for t.he pink house f did see in the hillsides the other day srhen I was up there seemed
9 10
!2
looking at one of our projects, to Sandy, s point, but he left-then f would suggest, and I would strongl-y suggest,
13
that we do
11
r4 15 15
r1 18
19 20
2t
24
25
investigatlon and possibly look for somebody who makes their living with color analysis that could actually come and help our town and maybe gi.ve us a color standard program that could update us if we have some
missed something. I coul-dn,t tel-l you what is 30 average of a house, and are you averaging the whole house? Is it going
to be al-I sides? There are too
many complications.
So that would be my sug.grestion. Other than that, I think what we have here seems tso be working. Maybe there
is every once i-n a while, and f think it happened with the Davj.don project that came before us one time and you asked for some color averaging and that was aIlowed, but that was LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMfSSION to/2t/2o:'s Hillside Development. Standards and Guidel-ines
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not starE under a very specific circumstance ' and r would
1
intotshisco]-olaveraging.Whoisgoingtodecidethaton Staff? Who would decide tshat? How would that be decided'
2 3
4
,.Ioe 1?
5
JOEL PAULSON: We'd
be using the model that the
It is Council approved for Davidon' It's very thorough'
6 1
I 9
10
11
t2
of all of the exterior matserials and tshe is LRv of those individual materials' and then its of determined whether or not it compli'es with the average
weighted average
you 30 or noE. It's the same conversation we had' as mentioned, that wenE to Council' and Council actually
13
directedStafft,obringthatbacktolookatthisopuion
14
foroEherhillsidehomes,andsothat'swhywe'rehere
15
before You now.
16 11
L9 20
2l 22 23
a
CoMMISSIoNER TALESFoRE:
Then if that's the case'
Iwouldliketoseeareviewofthat'Imeanhowthat's determined, if it's so formulaic' JOEL PAULSON:
I'11 forward you the meetings
and there where it came to Planning comnission and Council '
areanumberofexhibitstshatsgenerallylooklikethis. but I think COMMISSIONER TALESEORE: That's fine' for me, I would sEiII thinl< that
we need
to
maybe consult
24 25
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1
with
2
they may have
somebody and perhaps update what we some
are doing. I
mean
other ideas.
I,d just fike to j ump in with a quick question for Staff along those Iines. up until now with Davidon Homes, have we had any requests in the l-1 VICE CHAIR BADAME:
4
6
years since our Hillside Development Standards
7
I
and
Guidelines were adopted to deviate from our coLor regulat.ions?
9
JOEL pAULSON:
10
Not that I,m aware of, but just
r2
from a background perspective, I think it. was 1997 when the previous Hillside Development standards and Guidelines were
13
adopted-f,m looking at Lee j-n case my year is off_before
14
the 2004 version; that. was the first
11
15 16
time
LRV compliance
Hillside Guidelines. From that point up until Decedber 2014 St.aff had interpreted that as the main body came intso tshe
r7
color of the house; we didn,t l-ook at casement co.Iors of
18
windows, 2x5 tsrim. We looked at t.he main body of the house,
19
and if it was natural material.s, then we didn, t apply that, because they, re naturaf material-s and wouLd bLend with the
20
2L
hi11side. When Davidon,
23 24
the Planning Commission
s request who made
came forward
it went to
ttre recommendation to
Council. Council said no, we should be Looking at all of IrOS GATOS PITANNING COMMTSSTON ro/T-/201_5
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the exterior materj'af s, and so that's when this col-or averalJe, which was exactly what they had proposed to do' was brought. forward and
that was looked
ats'
of the conversations that we've had tonight' one specifically relating to whether there should be a cap' aIId whats thaE nurnlcer should be, for any materials so that you don't end up with a white house with a bl-ack roof' or a Some
black house with a white roof from a sustainability perspective. So I think those are things that we can
definitely look ats, and we'lf look to other jurisdictions' I know there was some information provided to cor:ncil on four or five otsher jurisdictions' some semihillside settings thaE have higher LRv caps. I think the county's cap is 45' and there are some others that were up to 60' Now, they weren't average and we don't know the details of whether they're looking at main body or they're looking at all the exterior Iocal and
eome
elsewhere, witsh
19
matserials, but jusE from a background perspective ' so
20
everyone has
that
background.
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thank you,
Mr'
Paulson '
Commissioner Kane '
If you have a model and you consider it. fair and reasonable for some varietsy on the COMMISSIoNER
24
25
KANE:
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1
house, then I'm okay with that. Cap it at some reasonabl-e
2
number, 35, 35.9, but. just prevents the abuse of the
3
ave.rage, that's all.
4 5 6
COMMISSfONER TALESFORE:
And in fact how would
that happen? I think that,s why I don,t find this foolproof
.
7
I 9
10
anything that, s going to be foolproof. COMMISSIONER TALESFORE:
11
JOEL PAULSON:
r2
COMMISSTONER
13
.IOEL pAt LSON:
14
15
I don,t think we,re going to get
JoEL PAITLSON:
f think you,re right.
f don,t want to lead you astray.
TALESFORE:
In all these years.
But looking at should
someone be
able to have a window that has a white casement where you' re talking about from the va1ley f1oor, a 2,, perimeter
16
around it with grids, iE that something thats we should be
!7
looking at? Or j-f it,s 2x6 trim that, s white or beige, is that really going to be that visible from the vaIley floor?
18
19
20
So I think there are a Iots of options there that. we can
Iook, but ( inaudible) cap.
2t COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: 23 24
25
Or where they could be,
if it was maybe the front of the house would be less int.rusj,ve than the back of t.he house, but who, s going to watching all this stuff? IJOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMISSION
be
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1 2 3 4 5
JOEI-, PAITLSON: We wants
well as the architsecture COMMI
S
s
the 35o-degree color
as
.
IoNER TALESFORE:
Rights' But I think then
there was one thing in here about Ehe I-'Rv and the average ' and tshis whole thing abouts some applicants have e><pressed
6
concerns to Stsaff regarding application of this
7
requirement, "New homes would have light colored trim"' but
8
then it goes on to say, "A new accessory structure or addition to an exj-sting residence constructed"' this is
9
10
11
on
page 3 of the report, "prior to the adoption of the
13
Hillside Developmen! Stsandards and Guidelines would need to confonn to the LRV requirements requiring painting or
r4
changing the materials for the entire house to meet the
15
30 and having the addiEion that's," b1ah, blah, blah' "the
16
different color, and this would result in significant
L7
cost to the
L2
18
19 20
2L 22 23
homeowner
Ihey
r,sould
added
"
probably have to do that anymy if
they vrere repairing or adding onto their home, because when your house is already painted, it hard to match that color' and most people end up
painting the entire house' so to
that's just not a compelling reason' JOEL PAULSON: That's a pretty
24
25
.
L,RV
hear. It's the
same
thing with the white
common
thing
me
we
casement windows'
LOS GATOS PI-,ANNTNG COMMTSSToN to/2l/20!5 HiLfside Developments SEandards and Guidelines StsudY Session
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re going to
1
so
2
an LRV casement of less than 30 when they, re changing out one window. we see things that are just at. the building
3
4 5 5
we'
make them replace
all 0f their windows to
permit 1eve1, and we hawe a number of houses if it was built before 1997 they don,t have the deed restriction. COMMISSIONER TALESFORE:
1
Right. WeI1, then those
would be on a case-by-case. 8
.IOEL PAULSON:
9
10
cases. COMMISS
11
t2 13
l4 15
15
r1
19 20
2l
fONER TALESFORE: Do you?
yes. Right now the requirements are that all exterior materials must be LRv 30 or 1ess. and so we're looking at those on a case_by_case basis, but it,s JOEL PAIIIJSON:
just one of those issues that as we move forward. And even any house from 199? to 2Of4, some of them have white trim, of them have white windohrs, and they have the restriction. some
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE:
hiflsides you,11 see that not alL JOBL PAITLSON:
23
Sure, but we have a Iot of lhose
deed
r think if you go in the
homes
are brown either.
Very true, and some of that is
because they, re more reguired to meet the LRV, because they didn't have the deed restriction from t. j-ming.
25
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COMMI
SS
IONER TALESFORE:
Right' And how can we
can't be enforcing that' How do we even check aII of that? I mean, reafl-y' It's hard to monitor' JOEL PALI-'SON: Its is trard to monitor ' where I talked CoMMISSIoNER TALESFoRE: That's
fof lovl? 3 4
6
We
about the responsibility,
and whats Rob broughts uP about
lle we're trying to make appli-cants ar''are and responsible' I could have tshem sign a document ' I don'ts know '
7
9
10 11
t2
You know what? I can't go on' so I'l-L submi't
my
to leave' Thank otsher comments in writsing, okay? I have you. VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thank
13
you' Commissioner
15
you next time' Talesfore for your comments, and we will see you had your I will look to Commissioner Erekson; I believe
16
hand uP.
l4
t'7 18
19 20
COMMISSIONER EREKSON: TO ThC
public testimony
abouE tshe impact
of
StAff,
dj'f
WC hAVE
ferent materials on
whatever' ref lectj.ve value using the same paint color or how r however you look au its' I need help understanding
2t
reflective value and variation in and materials, and how to think about reflective value
23
different archltecturaf styles ' 1'd like help in issue understanding how r should think abouc the trim
24
25
should think alrout
LOS GATOS PT,ANNTNG COMMrssroN
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Hiflside Development Standards and Guidelines S
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4
5
the fuII body of the house, and the roof and the body of the house. If I should think about those together, if f should have its together, if I should think about it
differently, arld what the differential
impact.s
of
those
are.
6
I mights suggest tshat we have a consulting architect for the Town $rho has a 1ot of experience in the I Town, and it might be useful or helpful to ask him to 9 7
10 11 L2 13 14 15
comment
on some things abouts architsectural sEyle and those
kinds of things. They would be impartial. f,m not suggesting that other architects who represent other
projects aren, t objective, but the consultj-ng architects essentially work for the Town. So that, s one comment about colors
.
One general comment.
16
I have about people being
t7
concerned about their having the e)q)ense of it,
18
taken by the Town to change a standard or a gmideline is a
19
21
in time, and it moves forward, and there are reasona.ble ways to grandfather the past, and reasonable
moment
reasons to grandfather some of the practices in the past
that aren't the 23 24
any action
bests
practices going forward.
But t.o the extent t.hat we have wisdom and we wan! to reshape somethj"ng going forward in the future as people LOS GATOS PTJANNTNG COMMTSSTON ro/27/2o1.5
Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines SEudy Session
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I think they should be e)q)ected to update those things. We can't 90 through the hillside and tefl everybody to repainE all their homes by six months from now, but as changes occur I think lt's reasonable to think about trying tso adoPt a new standard ' It doesn't bother me partsicularly to adopt a new standard; tshat happens all the
make changes,
1
time. Building codes change, people have to update things I that happens afl the time, so that's not a new problem' 9
The other thing I would like to say is Davidon
10
11
Homes has been
used, and a particular project in town has
L2
been used, as an example over and over and over in
13
context of these discussions. I'd just like to say for
14 15 15
l7 18
19 20 21-
'
tshe me
thisdiscussionisnotsaboutsonedevelopment,nota.boutone developer, and so I think we don't want to over-utilize and pot.ent.ially victimi.ze one person or one developer ' They may be doing a good job and they may be no! doing a good job' r
don't know, but that's really at some leve1 irrel-evant to these discussions. rf there are issues with that' one
with respect to today's standards or futsure standards, that's really not part of this discussion. We should be thinking about what's right for
particular
the
development
Town and
right for the hillsides of
tshe Town' because
24
I-,OS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION
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1
thaE represents only a very smal1 portion of the hillsides
2
of the Town. So that,s two generalized
3
4
comments.
The other co[unent, f,m going to make
some
conments about trees, if that, s okay.
5
VICE CHA]R BADAME: Of course. 6
COMMISSIONER EREKSON: 7
I 9
10
11 1-2
14 15 15
17
Trees are obviously living
things. and as people are, some trees are healthy, some trees are not as healthy, and all t.rees, all trees, hawe lifespan.
a
we,re doing any kind of visiblfity analysis and the coverage, werre viewing it at a moment in time, at a moment in Eime in the history of the Town, and a moment When
in time of the lifespan of all of those trees. I'm trying to figure out hov, 1f I shoul-d think about leaving out sparse canopy trees, for example. or leawing out trees tshat are in poor condition as countingt toward the... Shoul-d I ask the arborist tell me the average,
18
te11 me the remaining life eq)ectancy of every tree also?
19
Hypothetically a tree could be in reasona.ble good condition and have a very short life expectancy left too, so j-t, s not
20
2L
clear to
me how we can
exclude trees that are there
just
because they have somelhing, because we need to be in Ehe 24
business ultimately of reforestation in t.he Town and
25
LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSION rO/21,/20L5
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replenishing the tsrees, because all tsrees will die' AI1 trees do die, and we need to replenish them ' 1'm intrigued by the deed restriction idea in
t2 3
we have a
particular"'
Whatever
4
propertles so that if
5
standard we hawe, whatever
6
and we worrying about what Ehats stsandard is for the momenc ' then apply thats standard and someone passes tshe standard'
1 8 9
10
that
stsandard
is'
wiEhouts
hillsides can we creaEe an ongoing responsibilitsy in the for tshats homeowner, for the owner of Ehat property' to
L4
restriction on thats so have to that. they replenish and reforest' which is goi'ng tso be done, no maEEer whether they pass the thing' whether just barely stretch by? tstrey were way up here passing it or
15
we
11 L2 13
16 17 18
19 20
2r
maintsain
all-
that by
know
some
sort of
deed
the trees are going to die someday' so I'm
intrigued bY how ire do that ' I al-so don't know fulty
to understand how I a deal with the fact that someone is going to be doing project ats a moment in time, we're goj'nq to take visibility how
season analysis at this moment, and that's at a particular of the year. So do we use as the standard the least amount of coverage tshat is provided by a tree and the season tshe
most amounE of coverage 24
project is being...or
is, irrespective of
some average
when the
of that over time to give
!O/2\/2Oj.5 Hillside Development standards and Guidelines Study session LOS GATOS PI-,ANNING COMMISS]ON
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4 5 5 7
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11 L2 13 T4
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the most exposure or the least elq)osure or some average of that, or do we take the moment in time when they, re making the proposaf? I can,t figure out for myself.
coverage, then ho!,, is it fair?
with having
figure out
2t
someone postpone moving
who
25
forward on a project
are trying to develop properties? I
can,
t
to sort aII that out for myself. I probably have fots of other thoughts, but f,Ll lets it go at that. how
VfCE CHAIR BADAME: Thank you, Commissioner
Erekson, Any other comments? Commissioner Kane. COMMfSSIONER
24
do we judge fairness
to do something, so how do we deal $rith that issue and make its both represent what we want it to do with prot.ectsing the hillsides and views, but not being unreasonable and ulfair
L7
20
Hov,
simply because, for example, they couldn,t get financing? A11 kinds of reasons happen that dictate when you, re trying
to people
19
to sort af1 that out
If we're using the least coverage as the standard-I,m not suggestj-ng we should, I,m just using that as an example-and lre were nine months away from t.he least
16
18
how
KANE:
I
was
talking earlier
about.
the concept of trees and landscaping as a tertiary consideration on visibility,
and
I think the point is
made
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION TO/2I/201.5 j-nes
Hillside Development Standards and Guidel St.udy Session
77
on pages 2 and 3 of Dr. Weissman's letter of September
1
15Eh'
and when I say the point is made, r mean philosophically'
"Providing landscape screening is not an alternative to reducing building height or sefecting a fess visible site"'
4 5 6 7
I 9
10 11 L2 13 14 15 16
!'7 18 19
Now
I bel-ieve there he's quoting a meetj-ng of the Planning
Commissionfrom20Ogorthereabouts,itdoesn,tmatter. wtrat matsters is-and I'1I foLlow thj-s up in writing-he captures tshe aspecE of visibifity not tso be compromised with tsrees and bushes, which as commissioner ErekEon points
out
may be temporary, and
for maintaining that kind of flora' That's good, but we don't police folks and we don't always know what happens on construction sites' and healthy we don't have a daily reference to a tree that's going to and a tree that's suddenly falling down' What I'm on writse in terms of my tshoughts is nots tso put an emphasis the screening, buts rather put an emphasis on the purpose of
Hillside Guidelines
20 21-
he's interested in the contract
.
By the way, copy
of
Commissioner
if
I'd lj-ke a remarks' I was
we were taped tsonight
Talesfore's openi-ng
over here weeping. wanted to stand up and cheer' and I'm to reasonably serious, because she put it rea11y well as 24
25
what our job
is, as long as we have the job' and it's to
LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSToN
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11
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25
protect. I don,t want to namedrop, but I used to tal-k to Wasserman a 1ot when f $ras new, and I said I don,t want this, and I don,t want that. He said, ..We have an obligation to the people that exist, but we al-so have an obligation to the people yet to come that we wer-come them.,, So there are two considerations there, and I don,t want to bury the second consideration about our future citizens, but I also don,t want to give away our purpose in protecting the hills, and ,Joanne said it reaIly weII. I won't try to repeat j-t, but I woufd think that, s why we,re all up here. So time sha11 not erode the equity and we ought
not. 1et. our lang.uage get eroded for what the purposes were back in tshe garly 2OOos or the firsE draft came up in 199?.
I lived through
some
of that period, and what happens to
prohibitive Language is erosion and nerr, precedent setting, and now we,ve got a house divisible, so why can,t I have a house divisible? f made a comparison in the Marat/Sade scene where the guy finally walks in and says, ..Marat,
may
I keep this king?,, I mean things erode, and f,d like to think that what. our mission is on looking at at Least these two provisions of the hillside is to stop the erosion, and where and as appropriate return to Ehe original intent, LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION AO/27/20:-5
Hillside Development Standards and cuidefines Study Session
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which was to Protect the hillsides,
1
have to become matshematicians on
and if thats means
24 ' 5?,
we
however nothing to
had exceed 359, that's aII gamesmanshiP and chess. If we
3
discretionary language as is on those
Ewo Pages
4
stsrong
5
referenced, then maybe we could beef it up a littIe
6
going forward in the future'
1
I don't
know how we can address
concerns me the most when 9
10 11 L2
of the
was a way
bit in
What
I sit up trere is the heartbreak
new neighbors nots getsting what
were goj-ng to
this'
I
they tshought tshey
get. Our job is to be impassionatse ' If there we could say everybody who goes up tshere has
that
15
to get a copy of tshis stsuff, so they know that some of it is onerous, and j-f you're a normaf citizen and you read it for the firsts time, you'd think it's ridicufous' And if
15
you're new and you just pai-d a gazilJ-ion dollars to get
l1
whaE
13
r4
you want,
we could deal
it's not fair to see these things'
with
nots the homeowners
19
precede Ehe homeovrners
20
know rrhat
2t 22
24
25
' but
So
I
wish
tshose i''ho
to say please ensure Uhat the folks
theY're uP against' Justs
like she said,
when you move
into
an
Historic DisErict, when you move intso the hillgides' we I have these things, and I don't want to disappoint and don't want to hurt, but I wish everybody knew what is up in LOS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION LO/2L/2OI5
Hillside Development sEandards and Guidelines study session
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1
front of us so they don,t look at us like we,re idiots, if they do it,s understandable, because they don,t
3
unde.rstand where it came from, they don,t understand why
4
5
6 7
I 9
10
11 L2 13 L4
15 15
r7 18
have 1t, and they don,t understand what it is, And when
try to be good government, our first priority should communicat.ion with the people to know what it is.
27 22
24
we
we
be
to court has a lawyer, and this lawyer says that, and that lawyer says this, and it,s Everybody who goes
aLl about persuasion.
So when you have a vested
interest
you could sound persuasive, and the homeowners may
or
may
not be abLe to see through that, or not hear what they, re being t.oId, and I wish there was a way we could write language and get signed receipEs on Hillside standards and
Guidelines from ewery new Los Gatos citizen, our new neighbor who is going Eo move up there, that they know what we have. And maybe the same thing for the Historic District. as well
19 20
and
.
It really bot.hers us. ft did and
it does nohr, that peopfe
can,
me
terl years
ago,
t get what they thought
they were going to get because a brrnch of gnrys are going to p 1ay nickel and dime. We, re not pl-aying nickef and dime; I wish we had a better r{,ay of communicating that. Okay.
rJos GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION rO/2L/2OLs
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VICE CHAIR
t-
BADAME:
Thank
you, Commissioner
Kane '
Commissioner Hanssen. COMMISSIoNER HANSSEN:
3
I know we only have a few of
4
minutes Ieft, but I appreciate all the
5
fellowcommissionersandlthinkthey'reallgoodones'My general feeling about where we stand right now is that the
6 1 8 9
10
commentss
my
HillsideGuidelinesweredevelopedsometimeago,andtshen there is this coupl-e of specific things that we're being asked to look ats in tserms of modifying the documents
'
I didn't speak earlier about the trees' but in
11.
L4
ttrecaseoftreesandalsothecololanalysislthinkEhe proposed language that the Staff has created in both cases general ly provides more claritsy and specificity to the
15
exist ing document and would be more helpfut tso the
L2 t-3
The only question that remains is in ttre case of
15 L7 18
t9
Town '
the color analysis, adding in the entire surface of the does house versus just che main body color of the house create
some issues about
the averaging and whats happens; I
20
brought those up earlier.
2L
of tshe trees' I love whats Staff already came up with. I wondered if we woufdn't benefit Dr' from having a littsIe bit more time, because I tshinl< their Weissman and Ms. Quintana put a 1ot of tsime into
22 23
24
In
Ehe case
LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSToN ]-o/21/20L5
ttj.Llside Development Standards and Guidelines Study Session
1
thoughts on it,
2
of the questions that were in our packet for today. I,d feel betster if we actually did talk through a couple of
3
4
6
and we didn,t reaIly get to go tshrough each
those questions and have a consensus from the Commission about it, because f Ehink that to not go forward with this
is a mistake, because it,s going to add specificity where we don't have it now, and even in the current state without I amendments it's going to make it easier to determine how to 9 7
10
do a viewing analysis, for example, bett.er. VfCE CHAfR BADAME: Thank you, Commissioner
11 L2 13 14
Hanssen- we are out. of time, and r see commissioner Erekson
nodding his head, as if in agreement that maybe another study session is warrant.ed? Commissioner Erekson.
15 15
r7 18 19 20
2r 22
24
COMMISSIONER EREKSON:
I,d 1ike to add one real-
quj.ck tshing for the Stsaff. I am concerned about. how if we continue to use a percentage of visibllity how we should
thinl< about larger homes versus smaller
homes.
f,m not sure, Vice Chai-r Badame, that we need another study session, but. I did find the questions that were
in the
Weissman/euintana
thing very helpful . Whether I agree r4riEh thej.r answers or not is in question, but I thought the questions were right on and I thought they were
rJos GATOS PLANNTNG CoMMTSSION
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Hillside Development Standards and cuidelines Study Session
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1
very Ehoughtsful resPonses, and they caused me to think
2
about some
of
mY answers.
I think if the Staff could structure Ehe item' as they often do when it's agendized, again' and carefully walk us through the questions, and we did that deliberatsely
3
4 5
same time Ehat we could accomplish both obj ectives at the without having another session and then moving this furtsher
6
1
I
and furtsher out intso Ehe future '
9
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thank 10
11
you' That was my
like to thank thought process as wel-1' So at this point I'd
13
This is stsaff for tsheir proposed draft and modifications' so I am becoming even more complex with more information'
l4
any confident that the Planning Department will welcome
L2
15 15
!7 18 19
20
2r
23 24
25
and from email suggestions or inquiries from Commissioners and respond tso tshe public and take those intso consideration are ready tso us ats our Ptanning Commission hearing wtren we the take action as far as a motion on these itsems' Does ourn? stsaff have anytshing to add to that before we adj probalcly continue I-,AITREL PREVETTI: We should
thismeetingtoadatecertain'andlthinkgiventshe questions that were asked j-n the Staff analysis that's going to be needed, probably the Decedber
9Eh
would be the
meeting chat we would be prepared Eo come back' 1'O/2I/20I5 Guidelines and Hiflside Development Standards SEudY Session LOS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION
84
1
VICE CHAIR BADAIIIE: So you we do another
3
4 5
are recommending that
session, in essence that itrs continued?
LAUREL
pREVETTf: No, not to a stsudy session, but
to your regular session that, s schedul,ed for the ?:00 o, clock hearing.
December 9tb,
6
VICE CHAIR BADAIIE: Okay. Commissioner Kane. 7
COMMfSSfONER 8
9
10
KANE: Give me a sense of what you
see the agenda as being for November and December.
We have
two months where-you now lrhat I,m going to say_people want
13
to build houses, they want to do this, they want to do that. I hate de1aying. I,d sooner meet on Christmas Eve if f had to rather tharr make them waiE another month. we
14
shouldn't do that.
11 L2
15
15 L7 18 19 20 2L 22
But this particular subject may take a long time. We've been here two hours and maybe werve scratched the
surface, and maybe we, re done, because three of us are rnissing, and you know how much we ta1k. I,m not opposed to a study session. Getting here at 4:00 o, clock is Like ripping off epidermis, I work, but I,d rather do that, and of course it's up to you, you can reconunend. ff vre have for people that are waiting t.o get things done, I would look to making the ef fort., the sacrifice, to get here agendas
23 24 25
for a study session and keep on doing what LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSTON
we,
re doing,
to/21/2o]-5
Hillside Development St.andards and Guidelines Study Session
85
1
becau s e
get
its
it's really important, and it's important that we right, but no! ats the e>Ctr)ense of applicants s'ho want
ge! things done.
3
tso
4
certainly appreciate the consideration and balancing the long-term protection of our communi ty, as was articulated by many of the Commissioners this evening, with those applicanEs tshat are currently in
6 1
LAITREL
PREVETTI: And we
8
process. 9
are continuing to process the applications that are before us given tshe current guideline standards and ordinances, and please know that uftimately P1ease know
10
11 L2
that
we
14
it's the Counci] that will' have to make any decisions on the changes to the guidelines, so even if the Planning
15
Commission and stsaff couLd work as expeditsiously as
16
possible, there would stsiII be the calendaring and the
L7
decisions uhat the Council would have to
13
18 19
20 2L 22 23
r would say thats if you would like another study session, our ability given our workload and stsaffing' would sti11 puts us in Decedber. Decedber 2'd could be a opportuniEy
for anottrer study session to work through the
questions and any additsional SLaff recommendatsions '
I don't want the rest of the Comrnission to hate me, but I'm just sayi-ng we have one COMMISSIONER
24
25
make'
KANE:
r.,os GATOS PI-,ANNTNG COMMTSSTON tO/2t/2OL5 Hillside Development Stsandards and Guidelines
study session
86
1
lmeeting
in
November and one meeting j,n December, and
this subject
3
to be one of those meeEings, people going to be !,rait ing until February to build houses.
4 5 5 7
9
10 11
l2 13
was
pREVETTf: They,re not
LAITREL
waiting,
you've heard in prior testimony, but there are ways to keep the process going. rt's just that with the issues that were
raised tonight, and given the projects that are already scheduled for your consideration, it,s going to take some Staff work, and so a special meeting on December 2od is one
15
have the holidays
15
COMMISS
77
VICE CHAIR BADAI|E: yes, Comissioner Kane.
18
24
25
don,
t
know
if
December 2od
we would be ready
in
November.
Iile
.
fONER
COMMISSIONER
20
23
we
already have gnridelj-nes and ordinances that can gets them through the process now. I know we have one housing builder who is eager to see resolution on color averaging, as
option. I
2t
are
because
14
19
if
I(ANE:
Madam
Chair?
I(AtitE: Can we ask and see
if
is acceptable to Commissioners present?
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Wel-l,
yes, go ahead. I,m kind
of concerned that we, re missing three Commissioners. I,m just wondering if we do a po11 at a later date, but we can certainly ask the Commissioners present. Commissioner Erekson.
LOS GATOS PIJANNING COMMISSION 1.0/21./20:-5
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DevelopmenE St.andards and Guidelines Study Session 87
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CoMMI
SS
IoNER EREKSON: My guess
is thats Ehe
complexity of this arld the number of questions thats one 11-:30 needs to wade through could easily take from 7:00 to
2 3
4 5 6
7 8 9
10 11
!2 13 L4
15 16 L1
18 19
20 2L 22
s on a particular night. In response to Commissioner Kane' concern, it might be appropriate to think about scheduling
a special meeting of the Commissi'on justs for this topic and not agendize anyEhing else for thaE' and even if tshat were points in Deceniber 2od and tshe SEaff could be ready by thats time. But I'm not presuming that they could' because I'm sensitsive to the fact that our planning stsaff are leaderless aE this
moment
VICE CHAIR
.
BADAME:
Commissioner Kane, does thaE
sound agreeable tso you? COMMISSIONER
I(ANE:
How
does it differ
not sure. Let's do something on December VICE CHArR BADAIi!E: Would
from"' I'm
2od'
it be open for public
communicationE? iIOEL PAULSON:
Yes'
We
can contsinue
it tonights to
poll the rest of the Commission' we'11 to send out an email this week, and then we'II also have check availability of tshe chambers '
Decedber 2od. 9{e'11
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Commissioner Hanssen' 24 25
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1
) 3
4 5 5
COMMfSSIONER HANSSEN:
I,m avaifabLe on the 2d. I would prefer it to be a special meeting. I think that we should try to advance this forward and make a decision, because we could spend many, many meetings just discussing it, and I think we should put that on the agenda.
But I
8
thinl< the idea of making it a separat.e meeting from other ag'enda items, because I do think it wi1l take a few hours
9
to get to a motion that we can have consensus on.
7
10
VICE CI{AfR BADAITiE: Agreed.
11
COMMISSIONER
r2
VfCE CHAIR BADAME: Wel-l, we,
13
re not making
a
motion though, or are we making a motion? JOEL PAUISON:
1-4
15
KANE: Motion to continue to...
you,re going to make a motion to
continue this item.
15
VICE CHAIR BADAME: A11
to continue the item to
77
motion
18
certain.
19
ROBERT SCHIIT.,TZ: 20
right, let,s
Deceriber
make a
2d, the date
At what time?
VfCE CHAIR BADAME:
T tOO?
2L
COMMTSSIONER
VICE CI{AfR BADAME: 5:00?
23
COMMISSIONER EREKSON:
24
25
KANE: 6:00?
it's
7:
I,ll
second the motion if
00 o, c]ock. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMTSSION lo/2:-/20t5 Hillside Development Standards and GuideLines
Study Session
a9
VICE CHAIR BADAME:
1
CoMMISSIONER 3
want
wait a
second '
I(ANE: 7:OO o'cfock is what you
?
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Commissioner Kane
4 5
said 6:00
o'cfock.
5
COMMISSIONER }(ANE
3 7:00 o'cl-ock' I'II
second the
'1
mot
I
ion
.
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Al-l-
9
10
11
in favor? I'II
calL the
question. Unanimous. All rights' do we trave any further reports from staff?
15
justs I have one Commission ma!tser' and I would the back like to do a sbout-out to a gentleman sittsing in He comes to all row and wish him a HaPpy Birthday tonight ' so of our hearings and he's here tonight on his birthday'
16
Happy Birtshday. There
L7
fignrre iE outs. The meeEing is adj ourned '
L2 13
!4
are two of you back there' so you
18
19 20
2l
23
25
]-o/2t/20as Hil,lside Development Standards and Guidelines Los
GATOS PT,ANNTNG COMMTSSToN
StudY Session
90
3
APPEARANCE Los catos Planning Conmissioners:
4
S:
Mary Badame, Vice Chair Charles Erekson Melanie llanssen
D. Michael
Kane
O'Donnell Joanne Talesfore Tom
5 5 7
Torlrn Manager:
Laurel Prevetti
8
Planning Manager:
Joel Paulson
9
Town
Attorney:
Robert Schultz
10 11
Transcribed by:
Vicki L. Blandin (s10) 337-1ss8
t2 13
!4 15 15 17 18 19
20
2r 22
24
ATTACHMENT 5 25
LOS GATOS pr,ANNrNG COMMTSSTON ro/2l/2}r5
Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines Study Session
1
1
P R O C E E D I N G S:
2 3
DAVID WEISSMAN:
4 5
area, or just on the color averaging? VICE CHAIR BADAIvIE; Its can be
6 '7
I 9
10
Are tshese comments to be on any
and the wisibilitY
the color averaging
analysis '
I wan! to give one example of affected how any obvious financial conflict of interest has what Davidon wrote in their letter in your packet ' on page DAVID WBISSMAN:
11
3, Mr. Abbs discusses Tree 507 as an example of how even a
!2
tree with a very sparse canopy-his words-can provide
13 L4
screening
.
why
select this tsree as an example?
Because
it is
15
a major screening tree for the proposed house on Lot 7' but
16
I maintain that Tree 607 doesn't have a sparse canopy' and in fact would get around 5o-7ot screening credit under Lee
L1 18 19
20
2r
,')
24 25
Quintana and my proposed methodology ' want a sparse canopy tree? ilust look at a major
screening tree, Tree 526, seen to the right of labeled Tree 607 in Davidon's provided photo' The tree is actually dif f icul-t tso Pick out, because it's canopy is so sparse as
to be almost transparent. The orange netting in Davidon's photo is easily seen through Tree 627 everl during leaf-out' r.,os GATOS PT,ANNTNG COMMrssroN to / 2t
Hillside
/2ots
Development Standards and Guidelines study session
But more importantly, another reason for Dawidon
1 2
to not tout Tree 62G is because the consulting arborist
3
recentsly downgraded its structural rating and preservati.on
4
suit.ability to Fair/poor because of the fungal
5 6
wood decay
associated \^rit.h a mechanical injury to its trunk. This fungus could easily kiII
this tree. I asked Mr. Abbs if
he
1
I 9
10 11
rea11y thought the Planning Commission
your blatant deception at using Tree haven't
even. mentioned
74 l-5
EOZ
t see through
as an example. I
that Tree 607 also has a large
mechanical injury.
Mr. Abbs also contends that. a1l oak trees can be
72 13
wouLdn,
for
at any time of t.he year. Conveniently, he ignores that the consulting arborist said, regarding Tree 602, that this tree and all deciduous tsrees assessed
screeni.ng
15
on Highlands should be checked during ifune
t1
their condit.ion.
18
wint.er may not reweal whether the tree is even alive or
19
22 )1
as sess
tree during the
dead.
20
2r
Checking a deciduous
to better
But. then Mr. Abbs
also says in his letter,
on
I quote, "Davidon bel_ieves every tree should be allowed for screening. " Sounds like that includes even dead
page 2, and
tsrees
.
24
25
LOS GATOS PITANNING COMMISSTON rO/2]-/2O15
Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines Study Session
the Highland's
oak
not doing well because of the droughts, but
you
Mr. Abbs likes to claim
1 2
tsrees are
3
are smart enough to
4
5 6 7
Lrave
how
read in jusE about every one of
the consulting arborist's tree reports for each lot that many, many trees have also been impacled by lack of required tree Protection fences, resulting in repeated mechanical injuries, excessive pruning, and compactions by
8
heavy equipment and storage
of
hear4l materials under tsree
9 10
canopies.
13
IJastly, Davidon would like for us to believe' as j'n they say on page Cwo, thats the life e)q)ecEancy of a lree poor condition can be tshe same as a tree in good condition '
L4
Could be. but highly unlikely, according Eo the consulting
15
arborist who says that poor tsrees can be expected !o
16
decline regardless of
11 L2
L7 18
19
' ClearLy Davidon' given their lrack record, is the Iasts entitsy that you should listen tso when you consider how to improve the Hillside Standards.
20
2L
management
VICE CHAIR
any
of
BADAME:
Thank you,
Dr. Weissman.
tshe Commissioners hawe any guesEions
Do
for Dr.
22
weissman? Commissioner Kane
.
23
COMMTSSIONER KANE:
Dr. weissman, therefore
24 25
whaE would we do? LOS GATOS PT,ANNTNG COMMTSSTON LO/2L/2O!5
Hilfside Developmen! Stsandards and Guidelines study Session
what?
1 2
DAVID WEfSSMAN: Lee Ouintana and
with you a draft ordinance.
3
4
COMMISSTONER KANE:
And
that specifically
addresses your concern? DAVID WEISSMAN:
5
I have provided
of
That specifically addresses all
my concerns, and tshe concerns e>q)ressed by numerous
1
I
Planning Commission meetings, the Town Council meeting back
10
in May, and going back to what is expressed in the uillside Standards. We have tried to be positive. We have tried to
11
be obj ective.
9
!2 13
COMMISSIONER
KANE: This is page 1 of Exhibit 4,
where you gi.ve sewen references to past meetings?
14
DAVID WETSSMAN: No.
15
COMMISSIONER
15 77
KANE: Let me rephrase that. On page
L of Exhibit 4, you make reference to seven differen! meetings, and I sras at some of those meetings as a planning Commissioner and you remember them
19
20
an impressive piece of work. Thank you. DAVID WEISSI,IAN: Ttrank
Commissioner Kane,
you. No, I
am
referring,
to the pages that are in your packet.
COMMISSIONER
24
better than f do. It,s
KANE: The new
one?
DAVID WEISSMAN: Yes.
25
LOS GATOS pr.ANNrNG COMMTSSION
tO/2:-/2ot5
Hillside Development Standards and cuidelines Study Session
5
JOEL PAULSON:
1
Just for reference, it's the first
four pages of Exhibit 1 for the
SEudy Session ReporE '
KANE: I've got i-t' Thank you'
3
COMMISSIONER
4
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Any further questions? Thank
5 6
you, Dr. Weissman. I will now call Steve Abbs to the podium.
7
STEVE
ABBS: Hi, good afternoon' I'm Steve
Abbs
I
with Davidon Homes . 9
10
11 L2 13
14
15 15
t7 18
19
I have submitted a leEter of correspondence to express our opinions of ( inaudibfe) metshodolog:y ' aasically' in a nutshe11, we acEually think tshe current Hillside Desigm Guidelines work' I think vrhats stsaff is proposing as far as amendmentss to the methodology are good propoEals ' buE I think there is one thing that we need to kno!" ' that we're here for, is Ehat there may be come clarifications to the interpretations of the llillside DeveloPment Standards and Guidelines, but I don't think j-t warrants a fulI rewritse
20 2L 22 23
or changing of Ehe rules of the guidelines ' Staff is very competent. They're on top of
Arborlst and a Consultsing Arborist that are weII respected and very knowledgeable ' I thinL the Planning Commission should fisten to what they say' They're
things.
You have a Town
24
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t0/21/21ts Guj'delines and standards Hill-side Development r.,os GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSToN
StudY Session
1 2
the experts and they should have a 1ot of say in how these amendments are proposed.
3 4
5
I 9
10
Basica1ly thj-s evening f want to make sure that everybody keeps focused on
that the visibility
is standing
on the viewlng plat.form viewing hrith the naked eye. The leveL of detail in looking at Mr. Weissman,s photos, that,s
a phot.o zoomed in from a d.rone; you, re not going to see the 1evel of detail of seeing, leaves, trigs al1d branches. What you are going to see j.s a massing of a tree canopy from
r2
standing on a vj.ewing, platform wiEh a naked eye. Screening does occur from these very sparse
13
trees. I,ve
11
14 15
15 1-7
l-8
19 20
shown
in
my
letter that it,s very obvious that
is occurring from the very sparsest. trees with very limited foliage. Then a1so, if you put a house behind screening
those very sparse trees that have an r.,Rv compliant cor-or to them, that earth tone co1or, you,re not goj-ng to see
anything. Right now you barely see very bright orange netting behind Ehese tsrees.
2L
Another interpretat.ion that I think the planning Commission should discuss tonight j.s the fact of using
23
protected oak trees as part of screening. Back in Mayoi Wasserman actually interpreted the Hil,lside
24
25
Development Guidelines
to reduce visibility
2OO9
and visible
LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMISSION :-O/2A/20:-5
Hillside Development. SE.andards and cuidefines Study Session
of screen trees ' Councilperson McNutE encouraging that screen trees should be used' The trees that exist out tshere are in poor
impact by the use
1
agreed, 3
is one condition. In the situation we have on l'oE 10' Ehere it tree that was in fair condition when we stsarted design,
4 5 5
got
't
downgraded
to a Poor condition'
and based on
t be able to suggestions by Mr. Weissman, that tree wouldn't apPlicant be be used. Now, the question is why wouldn't an
I 9
10
11
thaE would able to instaLl a brand new Coast Live Oak tree time' they provide immediatse screening? when they grow over
L2
for provide more screening over time' ft would be better
13
tshe
14
15 16 L7
19 20
rt provides betler sustsainability to the of the oak woodland, and its would mitigaEe the visibility for everyone ' But houses. It just seems 1j-ke it's a win-win that I re' SA mi s interpretat ion of landscape screening environment.
the
think
Ehe
Planning Commission should tsaIk about ' Mr' VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thank you very much'
for you ' Abbs. Commissioner O'Donnell has a question heard some COMMI S S IONER O'DONNELL: We've referencestomectranicaldamagetovariousandsundry
25
trees,andlreafizeyouwerenotstshefirstpeopleto these develop this Property, so I don'ts know where us a litt1e bit mechanical injuries came from' Can you tell LOS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION LO/2I/2OA5
HiIlside
Devel-opment SEandards and Guidelines Study Session
1-
2
about what care you used to see t.hat there was no damage tshe
trees while you ilrere workj-ng on it?
3
4 5 5 1
I 9
10
t.o
STEVE
ABBS: The trees that Mr. Weissman
was
referring to on Lot Z were Trees 60? and G26. We have had no construction activity at all on those Iots. Ms. Debbie E11is is here; she can speak to what she has seen as far as what a mechanical injury to that t.ree is, but as far as I know, there hasn,t been any activity on that lot. Agaj.n, Debby E11is can speak
to this, but j-t coul,d have been
a
72
a fa11en 1imb, for alL I know. As far as Davidon is concerned, we have not done any construction actually on
13
that. loE to do any damage to these t.rees.
11
!4 15
16
t7 18 19
20
wound from
The one
thing that Mr. Weissman brings up in this
pl.cture is that yeah, in my letter f didn, t specifically bring up Tree 62G, but the sparseness of Trees GO7 and 62G are exactly the same. The purpose of my letter was to clearly identify a very sparse tree and the fact tshat from a viewing platform it clearly shows a screen of that. t.ree. VICE CHAfR BADAME: Was your quest.ion answered.? COMMISSIONER
O'DONNELL: yes.
22 23 24
VICE CIAIR BADAME: Thank you, Mr. Abbs. Arry
further questions?
Thank you.
f will- now cal1 Bess Wiersema. LOS GATOS pLANNrNc CoMMTSSTON
to/2:-/2ors Hillside Development Standards and GuideLines Study Session
9
BESS WIERSEMA:
1
from Studio3
2 3
4 5
Hi. You guys know me' I'm Bess'
.
I have a 1ot of clients over the past couple of years that we've been bringing to town, and some of the existing house colors are siginificantly greater in value looking at with
6
than the 30 LRv that the
7
regard to Hillside standards, and it poses a problem for
Town has been
most of the Projectss tshat we have ' 9
10
I
understsand from
your last study session
tshat
13
in terms of-and I could be wrong on this-if 25* ot the house is exposed' then the 30 LRV number sEays intact, buts if less than that is
L4
exposed
15
other tha! that .
11 12
l6
you glrys have considered something
or screened, I just
Ehen you would consider something
wanted
to bring to your attsention some of
l1
theissueswithLRVthatlhaveaprofessionalproblem
18
wi.tsh, and mY clientss do as well '
L9
20 2a
first bulIets point, art LRv of 30 or below' Note the house color EhaE is far darker tshan the average colors used in most homes in tshe Los Gatos hillside' at My
least the projects uhbt we are seeing, except those ref l-ective of an antiquated Mountain or old Tahoe type 24 25
r-,os GATOS PT,ANNTNG COMMTSSTON t0 / 2t / 2OLs
gillside Development standards and Guidelines S
tudY Session
10
1
style. I brought
2
second,
3
of 3 0 or below is inconsistent with certain archit.ectural styles, such as Spanish or Mediterranean, as well as a 1ot of the Craftsmans. I just think it creates kind of a bastardized character from an architectural standpoint. These are styles that. are often
4 5 5 1 8
10 11 L2 13
color chips I,1.I
show you j-n a
if I have time. An
used 9
some LRV
I_,RV
in hilIside,
their roof pitches are lower, to have to do something that has a color that, s inconsistent with that. tl4)e of home is often a problem. because
so
r also think that the imposition of LRV of 30 or below creates inconsistent character in nei.ghborhoods,
L4
mostly where we,re doing remodefs or significant additj-ons.
15
Most homes
16
that in the
t1 18
19
in neighborhoods are significant.ly greater than number.
An LRV of 30 or below is in direct conflict with
the design guidelj,nes, even Sect.ion 1 of the hillside specific one where it says number three, compatsible with
20
the surrounding neighborhood and respectful of neighJ:ors. A 2l Iot of the houses, even most recently one that you guys saw 23
here on Forrest,er Road, aIl of those houses have an
LRV
sitt.ing at 40 or a.bove, and oftsen greater than that.
LOS GATOS pr.ANNrNc coMMrssroN
Hillside
1,0/21/2}ts
Development Standards and Guidelines Study Session 1,1
My thoughts on how
1 2 3
4 R
6
7. 8 9
10
11
to
is to consider an LRV of greater than 30 on a proj ect -by-proj ect basis that is in keePing with the i.ntended
neighborhood average
LRV
so that a newer Project doesn't
stand out as a sore thumb. Consider an LRv of greater than 30 if it. is Erue to the architectural sty1e, and therefore
provides further intsegrity of the overall design' Consider a blended LRv concePt for the whole building, and consider the use of further guidelines, such as if tshe project can be seen from viewing platforms, reduced I-'Rv, matching the tshe immediate neighborhood average
quotient to
L2
LRV
13
addressing materials as part of
have questions. Commissioner Hanssen COMMISSIONER HANSSEN:
15 L7 18 19
20 2L 22
tshats
'
and
color' ' I had her hand up first'
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thank you, Ms' Wiersema
14
15
make tshis concept work as
I understsood aII your
but the proposal that is in the drafted text is to i-ncorporate IrRv averaging, so do you have additional issues qtith the idea of the LRV averaging? I understand a1I
commenEs,
of the points, but f think that was the whole reason Etlat the Town councit wanted to go forward with LRV averaging
for the houses
tstraE
were less than 25? visible'
23
BESS WIERSEMA:
But it's an average of what?
24 25
IO/2L/2OI.5 Guidelines and Stsandards Development
L,OS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION
Hillside
StudY Session
L2
1
2 3
4
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN:
That,
s one of my questions
tshat I would ask of Staff, but the concept. I mean what j-ssues do you have $rith tshe concept? Because all of your comments
that you just
made were
relative
to...
I thinlc the number is important. We did a quick analysis of just everyone, s houses, even for you gruys sitting up here, and f think Comnissioner BESS WIERSEMA:
6 7
I
O'Donne.Il was 9
10
11 L2 13 L4
noE
the only one that hit the number; I
know he,s
in a hilIside.
But I think understanding what the number is how the average is taken, is it volume surface area as
visible from the street out of the 25t, just definition around that, because 30 is a pretty heawy_duty nuhber to
15
hit, and very inconsistent with most of our existing
16
neighborhoods.
L7 18 1-9
20
2L
23
and
COMMISSIONER HANSSEI.I:
A fo11ow up question on
that is that you had mentioned color chips. I actua11y did some research on my own and r r.ooked at rrhat LRV values are on the sca1e, and it occurred to me that especially if you were doing gray colors, obviously the lorrrest. LRV is black and we don't really want brack houses in the hillsides. so
f wondered if there is a way to puE
some
LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMISSTON
different
to/2t/2}:-.s
Hillside Development Standards and cuidelines Study Session
13
1
boundaries
2
want
or definitions around it to
make
it what we
?
3
BESS WIERSEMA:
With regard tso color chips' I
just quickly took a pan of people are beige tones'
4
green
tones, and gray tones. They look purple up here' but 5
they'
re (inaudible)
.
1
COMMISSIONER
}iANSSEN:
I can't tell what the
LRV
I 9
BEss WTERSEMA: The ones 10
11
t2 13
t4 15 16 L'7
18 19
20
with the Post-Its on it
are where you frave Eo get to on a regular average cofor
tso
hit at an l,Rv 3 0 . COMMISSIoNERHANSSEN:Soanythj-ngthat'slighter
than that is...
that's to the right of that would not qualify for the LRv ' You have to get a BESS WIERSEMA:
Anything
significantlY dark home ' COMMISSIONER HANSSEN:
Just
my observation
in the
I think case of the blacks and the blues that's the case' over that's b1ue, or it's gray, but as you kind of moved they're not quite as dark, and that' s the thing I j-dea' looking for; that's very helpful to get an
was
VTCE CHAIR BADAME: Commissioner O'Dorrnell ' 24
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IO/2I/2OI5 Guidelines and standards Hil,lside Developmen! S tudy session LOS GATOS PI.ANNING COMMISSION
l4
1 2 3
4
5
COMMfSSIoNER O, DONNELL:
That was very helpful
.
I'm just curious though, I find it hard to deal with this on statutory basis or guideline basis, but we in the past have had sort. of a maximum. We said not above 30 under certaj.n condit.ions, whatever. Do you believe the use of
5
maximum
a
at all is helpful?
1
I 9
10 11 L2
I think that it could be, unless there is a neighborhood definition as part of that BESS WIERSEMA:
character of the neighborhood. ff you
c€rn
prove Ehat the
average LRV of a neighborhood is, say... I think we had it i.n here. An average LRV of the neighborhood that you gnlys most
recent.ly saw on Forrester was 12.4 foy our immediate t4
neighborhood. sorry, r have the wrong nunber. r Ehink a
15
maximum number
15 77
19
2L
could be used, but f think 30 is too tight.
COMMISSIONER O ' DONI{ELL;
having sat here for a number of years, we don, t take responsib5-lity for what happened before we got. here, so the fact that we might think what got there before we did was something we don,t agree with, I guess we,d like to kind of move on and maybe On
24
The reason I ask you is
not do it the
same way.
the other hand, I hear what
I think it makes sense, but
we,
you,
re saying
and
re going to have to wrestle
LOS GATOS pr,ANNrNG COMMTSSToN ro/21/2OA5
Hilfside Development Standards and Guidelines Study Session
15
with that.
1
So we say
there was some simplicity in what
before; that doesn't
suggested
make
was
it right'
But I do think if we had a sha1l not' exceed or 4 5 6
1
I
some
kind of number, it would be helpful ' r heard you
earlier tshrow out 403. buE I don't Iike this thing thats just says if they made a Iot of mistakes in the past' !'e'fl use thats ag our baseline, and that iS $,hat you, re saying. So
let's talk about not that'
9
BESS WIERSEMA: Right ' 10 COMMI
11
!2
IONER O'DONNELL: Do
you hrave some other
help? BESS WIERSEMA:
13
!4
SS
If you could take your immediate
neighborhood and have an average I-'Rv of what those
homes
15
them' were in the neighJrorhood so that you could fit into or lt'hether and you were witshin a ceruain percent of that '
1'l
you want
15
18 19 20
2t
to call that average the current max' or a median looking number, L think that that's something that's worth at. That way you don't end up with the black hole house in the middle of the neighborhood that's all light tan taupe and whitse. COMMISSIONER
23
and
O'
DONNELL: So your view
of
hillsides is we hawe different blotches up there
LOS GATOS PI,ANNTNG COMMTSSToN
tshe
because
to/2t/29L5
Hillside Devefopment Standards and Guidelines Study session
16
1
neighborhoods are different? Average each nei.ghborhood and
you're going to get a different 3 4
number.
I think neighborhoods are different, and I think archj-tectural styfes often ca1l for a different color palette as we11. BESS WfERSEMA:
5
COMMISSTONER
O,DONNELL: Thank you.
7
VfCE CHAfR BADAME: Any
I 9
Commissioner Erekson. COMMfSSIONER EREKSON: Shou1d
10
11 1-2
l-3 74
further questions?
we
think about the
roof reflective walue different from the body of the house, as opposed to looking at the total house arrd roof with a single reflective walue? Should we separate those two, what would the desj-gm implications be of doing that?
and
I think that,s worth considering. I also think it should be careful to not just use langmage like on a metal roof that it needs to be an anodized metal BESS l{f ERSEMA:
16
!7 l-8
19 20
roof. There are gruys
roofs; in fact the ones that you grenerally like better are not the ones that are
anodized, but
2L
ones
many metal
that have a met.aLlic und.ertone that. are the
that have essentially the fE alarms
as s ig'ned 24
of
what
me when
enamel process put. on them.
I see specific
langnrage
specific materials without having an understanding those materials are that are currenE on the market LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSToN
1o/2r/2o:-s
Hillside Development Standards and Study Session
Guj-deLines
t7
for residential projects rights now' so I think some understanding of, yes, roofing could have a different
1
3 4 5 5 7
I
I-'RV
quotient, so it's not a big ref l-ective roof, then the fagade of the house I think is a great way Lo look at it'
r also tshink materials are important ' A suPer smooth stucco is going to look very different tshan a singled house, iust because of shadow and texture that's added, but vre're required to give the LRv that's on the
9
13
color chip no matster what. I think there are a lot of things that have to be taken intso consideration, and not just a flat number ' VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thanl< you for your comments '
L4
Any
10
11 L2
further questions?
ANGELIA DOERNER:
15 16
t7 18 19 20
2L
up' Angelia
Doerner '
Hel1o' I'm Angelia Doerner'
a
of the Almond Grove ' I'm here because this is maybe going to throw a IittsIe wrench into something, or aE least I think warrantss of the some consideration ats this workshop, is page three Staff Report referring specifically to Items 3-5' witsh
wery proud resident
rooftop colors, metal surfaces,
tinting
arrd
mj'rror like window
.
when 24
Thank you ' Next
I
was here
last
tsime abouts Asseribly
2188 concerning new provisions about rooftop
solar
BilI systems'
I.,OS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION LO / 2I / 2Oj.5
Hillside Development scandards and Guidelines s
tsudy Session
18
1
3
4 5 5 7
f start.ed thinking-and f can already hear some oh darns over there-but I started thinking about. how this applies to our hj-Llside homes and how you,re going to be dealing with allowing or approving or deEermining whether some of these rooftop solar systems could be causing significant issues or contradictions with what we have in our Hillside Standards.
8
9
10
11
t2 13 14 15 15 1-7
18
Specifically what I think could be considered is that. cited in Section 3, paragraph G5850.5(b) in Asse ibly Bill 2188. They do give the authority to the Town to address or apply for a use permit if they can prove that there's a specific adverse impact upon the public health and safety of the Town, and what I,m concerned about is rooftop systems. You guys do
wonderful color that merges with the hiLLside and the environment. Someone puts up a solar system that provj-des
glare directly 20
2! 22 23 24
a g.reat job, you put up this
down Highway 17
r^ri
th the brightest sun
a
and
blinding drivers. There, s always discussion here about the lights and the windows and how that, s going to be shining at night and be visible. What about. visibility day with solar systems alI over tshe roofs?
during
tshe
25
LOS GATOS Pr_,ANNTNG
roN to 2t 2ots
/ Hillside Development Standards and /Guidel-ines COMMTSS
Study Session
19
I'm just throwing this out as something that I
1
thinkcouldbeconsidered,orshouldbeatleasttshought to abouts, and using tshaE particular reference in the bill
3
the building permit process
4
see
5
that you can tsake a harder look from Ehese same viewing platforms and the same other things that you're talking safety about novit to make sure that those kinds of public
5
7
I
if there's
some way around
issues aren't encountered '
9
vrcE 10
11
l2
MS.
CHAIR B.ADAME: Do $'e
have any questions for
I Doerner? Seeing none, tshank you for your comments '
wilf now call Mr. Harris to the
Podium '
15
HARRIS: My name is Sandy Harris and I'm we have a here in regard tso the home on Drysdale' r know color code assocj-ated wiLh the hillsides' whi'ch I agree
15
with completely,
13
l4
L7 18 19
SANDY
at the hillside and painted their you trave st,reet sig"ns up there where people houseswhiEeandveryreflectivecolors,rthinkitbrings down the integrity of our hillsides' But what I'm not sure of is that same application
20
2r
appl led enougtr
23 24
because when you look
to houses that aren't visible' they're do!'n fow as where nobody can actually see them ' It appears
purpose ' though ttrats same regulation, because of that by being implementsed on houses that can never be seen
is
!o/2t/2OL5 Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMrssroN
StudY Session
20
1
3
4 5 6 1
I
anybody other than the people who
live on the specific
street that they, re one, or j-t, s on a street that nobody would ever go to unless you did live there type thing, and it's not a thoroughfare to go anywhere. But I just hrant. to see if there is possible consideration that could be given for houses in that regard as far as trying to hold them Eo the wire on the 30 LRV. I
that was implemented to st.art with, which is agreeable and I think I,m very, very happy they did that, know why
9
10
11 L2 13 14 15 16
t'7 18 1-9
20
if they had put that into effect m.rny years ago we wouldn't be looking at all those bright houses up on the hi11side. But if there is possible consideration that. could because
be given for houses that are visible only to the people who Live on the street that they, re on, I woul-d appreciate some
sort of consideration like that, if it,s possible that grrys would think about that. VICE CHAIR BADAME: Anything
you
further? you sti1l
have time 1efts. Commissioner Erekson has a question for you.
2! COMMISSIONER ERBKSON:
24
Trying to understand what
you're proposing to us. Are you proposj-ng a Town_wide standard of a certain maximum reflective vaIue. or for all
LOS GATOS PT,ANNING COMMISSION
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the
2
hi 1f s ides
3
4 5 6
whether they're
homes ?
SAIiIDY
10
11
HARRIS: No,
all the homes thac are visible
in the hillside shouldn't be reflected' They shouldn't be somelhing that you have tso look at that house all the time' because you can't help it, it's reflecting back at you and
7
I
visible or not visible in the
demonstrating
to you that it's there'
But I'm suggesting if you have a house that is
not visible from anywhere, and it's not up in the hillsides, and the only way someone is ever going tso see i.t your home or go to
13
is if they drive uP Your street to your neighbor's home, because it's
t4
arrlmhere, I'm iust wondering j-f there' s consideration that
15
can be given for tshats siEuatsion'
I
16
knot^,
go tso nots
a thoroughfare going
what the guideline waE put in place for'
l1
because of all the street signs we have all over lhe
18
mor]rltains with people painting the houses colors thats
19
20 27
t nature's true colors- And I'm not saying someone is going to paint a house pink or !'hj-te or whatever' but I'm
weren'
justs saying that 30 is hard to find a color that reaIly
fits
some
designs and architecture of houses' And j-f it's
not in an area where it's not visible and nobody can see 25
LOS GATOS PI-,ANNING COMMISSION IO/2I/20]-5 Hil]side Deve l opment. standards and Guidelines
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it, f'm.asking if there, s a possibly there could be consideration given t.o that specific type of a case.
3
VfCE CHAfR BADAME: Commissioner Kane.
4
COMMISSIONBR
KANE: Mr. Harrj.s, you and f go
way
back. 6
SANDY
HARRIS: yes, sir.
7
COMMISSIONER
I 9
10
11 1' 13 14 15
15 L7 18
liberty. What f,m hearing is if a tree falls in the forest and one j-s there, wil-l- it make any noise? ff I,m going .no
up in the hillsides, why would I want a pin]( and blue and orange house? You just said well I,m sure nobody would want
to paint it that way, but if we,lower the standard we get pink and blue and oraige house, possibly. Why wouldn,t I i'rant to have the hillsides continually rustic and
2L
I want that? SANDY
HARRIS: Okay, you asked me a question. If
I would take you around the various areas that are considered hillsi.des in the Tor,rn of Los Gatos... COMMISS]ONER
SANDy 24 25
a
respectful of everything the Hil1side Guidelines provide? It's not a rhetorical question, it, s like real]y, why woutd
r9 20
KANE: So f,m going to take fittle
the
Town
KANE: And you have.
HARRIS: yes. There are lots of areas in
of Los Gatos that
you,
re never going to have to
LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSION rO/2!/2OA5
Hillside Development Standards and cuidelines Study Session
23
1
take a look at unl,ess you know someone there and you're going tso their specific house, and those houses, most of them
4
5 6 7
I
There's this new standard put in to where it has to be 30 or below, which tshe house, I don't know if you've seen many 30
or belows. buts there are
nots
a lot of colors you
c€rn
rea1ly pick in that arena and have a house that's conducive tso
10
are fairly consistent $rith each other color-wise'
certain architecture stsyIes or
dark. I can r:nderstand having
whatsever, because
some
it's
so
regrrlation in place thaE
13
affects our community, because that's what we're about is our community, but not isolati'ng someone that it doesn't affect anybody else other than the people who live on the
14
street and the people, if
15
and nobody else can see
16
thoroughfare of anY kind where you can't go anywhere other
L7
than to those PeoPIe's houses, I'm just saying it would
18
nice if there was
19
specific case.
11 L2
20
2L
some
VICE CHAIR Commissioner Kane
tshey
it, and it's not a major be
sort of .ur exception for that
BADAME:
Anything furEher,
?
22
COMMISS
are happy with the color'
IONER I(ANE
:
No, tshank you.
23
VICE CHAIR
BADAME:
Thank
you. I will now call
24
25
Dennis &azzar i tso the Podium. IO/2I/2OL5 Guidelines and standards Hillside Development StsudY session I,OS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION
24
1 2 3
4 5 6 7
I
DEaINf
S RAZZARI : 'Madam Chair, Menibers of the
Commission, I'm Dennis Razzari, Davidon Homes.
I wanted to
briefly on the tree issue as wel1. as I may be alcle to add some insight for you, if time al,lows or you want to bring me back, regarding the color tsouch
average, because that, s what we did do also up Highlands project and maybe why this item
again tonight
at the
is before
you
.
9
But.
10
with regard to the trees, the Hillside
11
Development Standards and Guidelines were adoptsed
L2
January 2004. Por almost L2 years now they,ve served pretty
in
effectively for the Town, and recently with our proj ect. it l-ike a l-ot of attention has been drawn to them. It,
1-4
seems
15
been drawn
16
of the lang"uage
L7
to
them because
of
some
However. what. Dr. Weissman has recommended this
evening as
).9
further introduces
20
are interpreted. I think staff has
,)
far as revising the
more ambigrrity
with the addition of the
for them I think
Langruage
into
how t.hose guidelines
done
a phenomenal job
language.
As Mr. Abbs indi,catsed a1so, the vigibility 24
25
some
.
18
,1
of the ambiguity of
s
from
the viewing platforms at the distances that are involwed, and
the use of a
500mm
lens and a
3OOmm
1ens is more than
LOS GATOS pr,ANNrNG COMMTSSION
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Sess j-on
25
1
adequate
2
product
3
4
in
detsermining how
visible
tshose
ambiguity as to r.rhere is the vantage point? vle've had enough discussion and argrrment over the viewing platforms'
the vantage points are from
fet alone
6
which you're going to view this project'
now determinj-ng where
'7
Davidon has spent
10 11
13 14 15 15 L1 18 19
20 21-
lars on the four
tshousands of
homes thats we
it around, it's a very tedious and onerous task' and an expensive task, for a private party to endure ' So I would caution you on that, because I think you need to welcome your applicantss into the Town ' nots justs developers. Maybe not developers at all, if you choose ' but your owners that are building custom homes or homes in the
to
move
hillside, you want to be able tso work with them and have a language and stsatute tshat is interpreted, clear, defined' and
I think that
session 23
titerally tens of
recently had before you' j'n arrd and for a privatse partsy on a single-family to come do that and then we challenged as to that's not the correct vant age point, that's not the correct viewing platform, and
dol 9
s are, or the
is. To tsake it to a vantage point introduces
5
I
home
rrras Eo
thats was
the intent of what Ehis study
do, to geE langnrage that is not
To take trees and evaluate them as
ambiguous '
to
whetsher
their health is good, poor or great is an j'nterpretation I,OS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION LO/2I/2O].5
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Developments standards and Guidelines
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25
1
3
4 5 6
that should be
l-ef
t to the consulting arborj-st. To then
take that tree and say it, s only worth 60* value because of its character I think adds more ambiguity into it. To take a calculation around it. where f.or L2 years it sufficed at 25t, and now introduce an average where 25t is now goj-ng to be brought down to 24.52, is again, a change that is not
7
necessary. It has worked, and with the clarity that. Staff 8
9
10
11
has recommended, I think it works very we11. f tshink what
staff has
is appropriate language to
be
adopted. ThanJt you. VICE CHAIR
L2 13
recommended
BADAME:
Thank you. Questions?
Commissioner Kane .
t4
COMMISSIONER
KANE: For you and Mr. Abbs,
I
was
15
there
15
was. I remember
11
r had an issue with the priority of foliage, that there was a primary set of st.andards for houses in the hills, as secondary and then tsertiary considerations. I
18
19 20 2L
24
don't
this language; at least f think I the sixties, so I cErn remember tshat.
when we developed
if the
or even Ehe To!,rn Council at that time agreed or supported the notion that I had that a tree could be a fleeting thing, bushes, foliage could be a fleeting thing, and that it was an amelioration, a tert.iary know
Commission
25
LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMISSION
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Hillside Development Standards and GuideLines Study Session
27
1
consideration to bring in Erees as realIy perrnanently
2
affecting the 24.5-25t. I
4
5 6
ritas
thinking
when you spoke
earlier, Mr'
Abbs,
the question is-I have to ask you questionsdo you know if there's a law requiring a homeowner to put up a giant oak tree that just feII
down due
to naEural causea, which oak
7
tree blocked 50t of the house? Now what do we do? So that's I how I assigrred a terEiary consideration to trees when 9
10
11
ta]king about visibiJ-ity. I've been here for 30-something years, and it doesn't look like its used to look. Maybe the down and we need language saying you have tso
L2
trees all feII
13
put up an exact replica, which wouldn't be very practicaf'
L4
But that' s a question.
15 16
t7 18 19 20
is to foliage having to do with visibility, that's in the hands of God, that's temporarily. It could be overnighE; it could be 50 years ' But what if it. all falls down and I can see the white house When
you give
emphas
with a 50 LRv from 20 milee awaY. DENNIS RMZARI: I don't
know
that
tshere
is
any
2L
law within the Town's statutes that requires a tree to be
22
replaced. I can tsell you that in the brief period of time
23 24
25
that Davidon has owned the ltighlands propertsy, we ttave Eeen a number of rated healthy trees, both within the I-,Rv areas LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION LO/2I/2O]-5
Hil-l-side Development Standards and Guidelines StudY Session
28
1
and outside of the LRV areas, that have falfen completely.
2
Some
3
plain keeled over and dropped. We,ve had sudden limb drop
4
off of a
5 6 7
I 9
10
due to windstorms and st.orms, buts some thaE have just
number
of trees that are in healthy vigor.
Mr. Abbs indicated earlier that the Commission should consider the opportunity or allowance of
tshe
plant.ing of oak trees, native trees, within the area.
The
Highlands in particular I think has been rated as a second
growth, or a later growth, forest, and so the trees up
11
there may not be in the best of health. f don,ts know if
L2
harvesting is the correct word for it, but they are
13
secondary growth trees and as a result they don, t have the
14
vigor and strength of the original tree. If
15
supplement that forest., that oak woodland forest, by
15
planting box tsrees, and significantly sized box trees is
L7
what we would suggresE, you can augment the screen of the
18
house and you're introducing healthy species and varieties
19
back into the oak woodland forest that are not second or
20
later generation growlhs, that add vigor and health to the
2L
forest in general, and
22
CoMMISSIONER
carn supplement
we,
re able to
lhe screen.
KANE: A brief follow up, buE not
Eo
23
belalcor the point. I said what. if? Vihat. if that massive oak 25
tsree comes down at the hand of God, lighting,
storm,
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMTSSTON L0/2r/2}]-s
Hillside
Development. Standards and Guidelines
Study Session
)q
t-
wonderful house 3 4
Francisco. Irihat's going to moti.vate me putting up..' You get my
point? This is how I'd put foliage in a tertiary light
to protecting the hillsides and reducing I can't depend on a "temporary tree" that a visibility. homeowner is just not going Eo lose sleep over repJ-acing if
when 6 '7
I
just paid tripJ-e the money for this on the hillside, and suddenly I can see San
vrhatever, and I' ve
i,ts
its
comes
fal1s
down
to
man.
and then Ehey have one
of the greatsest views
9
l-0
11 L2 13
known
I thiDk current,ly the Town does have policy that if a tsree fa1ls, and this tras occurred on our site where a tree has falIen, a Tree Removal Permit is DENNIS
RAZZARI:
15
sti11 required, and j.n cases where its has happened a Tree Removal Permj.t is required with tree mitigation that is
15
appli.ed
14
l7 18
t9 20
2l 22
23 24 25
to
tshats
.
To address your concern,
I chink the trees
thats
we're proposing to be used as screening can potentsially have some tyPe
of
deed
rest,riction or
something on
that 1ot
if there is a tree thaE faIIs that the homeowner does have someone on title Ehat tshat tree does have to be replaced. so there is a potential 1ega1 option that can be
where
if a tree does faL1. a Tree Removal Permi! is regu.ired, ald miEigation is required. implemented. but currently
I,OS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION LO/2I/20]-5 Hillside DeveLopments Standards and Guidelines
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30
1
COMMISSIONER
KANE: Let,s go to Staff and find
out from staff. 3
JOEL PAITLSON: Correct
4
COMMISSIONER
.
KANE: What is?
t
JOEIJ PAITLSON: 6
Removal Permit
That if a tree falls,
a Tree
is required, and mitigation replacement is
7
required. 8
COMMISSIONER 9 10
a
homeowner who
KANE: I did nots know thats. Even on
has been there a while?
iIOEL PAULSON: On any
11
property.
13
COMMISSIONER KAIiIE: fs it a reptica tree, or a . certain box Eree, or a tree that will eventually develop
14
into the tree that fell
L2
down?
JOEL PAULSON:
15
It,s a number of box trees
based
16
on the table in the Tree Ordinance, so depending on the
l7
canopy size of the tree before it fe11.
18
COIiIMISSIONER
19 20
2t
ROBERT
KANE: Thank you.
SCHULTZ: On
top of that, it is certainly
to put. in, through a deed restriction, Conditions of Approval thaE require the maintenance of landscaping or screening; I,ve seen those done also.
possj.ble
23
COMMISSIONER 24
KANE: Do we regularly do that?
25
LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSTON t0/21/20:-5
Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines Study Session
31
ROBERT
1
SCHIILTZ: No,
I don't think
we have up to
this point . 3 4
I would just of f er that prior to when I arrived the Town used to do five-year tree ,JOEL PAITL,SON:
5
maintenance agreementss with property owners '
6
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Any
7
further questions?
Commissi.oner Talesfore.
8
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: 9
10 11
arrived the
to
18 19
20 a1
' so they planted or was parE of the approval, they
had
ttrat its survived for five years' COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: And the Town tsook it
make sure
15
11
did t/rhat, and can you e>eri,ence,
mainly for forestry in estimating c.rnopy density, and these
are like a lj.ttl-e chart that you wiIJ- see v'here it's like circle that's fil-led in completely black; that's 100? densi.ty. Then they'11 start punching little white holes in it, and they have a series where they'1J' say this is 100*'
15
here's 80t, here's 60t, here's 4Ot' Mainly in forestry use that tlPe of a chart to try to be more objective'
16
particularly
t4
).'l 18
19 20
2r
,)
a
between
different
observers
COMMISSIONER HANSSEIiI:
tshey
'
I ask because I tshink
one
of t,he suggestions that has been made by the public is to incorporate the idea of sparse canopies into whether it's included in a wiewing, and so r just wanted to know what went behind it.
you're saying yes, there is a standard out there for forestsry, and although you haven't, because of al} your e)q)erience and you' re not doing forestry per se' So
I.,OS GATOS PI,ANNING Hilfside Deve foPment
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standards and Guidelines study session
50
1
but if you tranted to rely on that you could use something like that?
3
ETLIS: Sure, and I would be happy to look that up and send iE to you, if you Iike.
4
DEBORAI{
5 5
't
I 9
10
11
t2 13 74 15 16
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thank you. Any
further
questions for the Town Arborist? Thank you, Ms. E11is.
I will look to the Commissioners to see if they have any comments on the color averaging. Commissioner O' Donnefl
.
COMMISSIONER
O,DONNELL:
I,m the one that, s going
to leave at 5:30, so before I do leave I did want to throw out a couple of thoughts. I think what
we,
re hearing today is very helpful
.
I also think the complexity of what lre,re hearing today makes it very difficult to adequately draft sometshing that
L7
will apply in all circumstances.
18
Starting with that, f think the Staff has done a good job, and the beautsy of what. the St.af f has done I think
19
20
27
24
is to take something that has worked.
We
can critj,cize from
time to time, but it has worked. What Staff is proposing is more than fine-tuning, but it,s less than totally redoing.
I tend towards that, because there, s nothing to prevent
us
LOS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION 1-O/2I/20:-5
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51
1
from continuing hoPefullY to
2
I just start with Ehat thought.
5
that they have and Ehat are set forth in their report of Octsober 21"E, I justs want !o make a couple of comments '
6 7
I
changes as necessary. so
secondly, when I look ats the specific proposals
3
4
make
On page
2 we Ealk about the instal]aEion of story
poles and aIl- tshat kind of tshing, and we get inEo two areas
L2
at least which are faj,rly complex, one of which is viewing platforms versus vantage points. As far as I'm concerned' the viewing platforms have not been perfect; we know that' we've seen examples of i't. On the other hand, I wouLdn't
13
want
9
10
11
L4
to throw tshat out. what is being proposed here is
15
locations as
16
Developments
L1 18
deemed
appropriate by the
thats other
Community
Di-rector could be used, which r think makes it
biE easier !o use this, because we are trying to preserve our views and the tsrees and all that ' On the other
a little
l-9
hand, we're not passing a law that says there will- be
20
furtsher building in hilts. If we are, then it
21-
everything much simpler, nobody has
22
tso
no
makes
waist a bunch of
trying to come in. So if the communi tsy Development Director has this leehray, tshen I think we ge! around some of tshe problems
money 23 24
LOS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION IO/21'/20j.5
Hillside Development
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1 2 3
4 5 6
that were recently addressed to us, such as the Chevron station blocking things, so I kind of like Ehat suggestion. As far as the reflectivity, that,s real-ly trou.blesome to me. On page 2, we use a visible home as
defined as 24.5E.
On page
3, we talk about, ..Exterior
colors sha1l not exceed a reflectivity
value of 30.,, I
7 8
9 10
11 L2 13 L4 15 16 1'7
18
think the suggestion on the bottom of page 3, t.hat the averaging be allowed except t,o tshe extent the home is
more
than 25? visible perhaps is an improvement. I don,t Like the facE that you look at individual neighborhoods in the
foothills and tailor it by group of housing, group of housing, because that doesn,t help the general view. I think hopefully the averaging will help a 1ot. I do think there is some reason to believe that maybe averaging will not solve that 30* issue, but it may be improved by averaging. I don'E know srhat you come up with
rather than 303, because in
many cases
tha! 30t is fine,
j.n
some cases, maybe
20 2L
not. I don't know how t.o deal with that however, and so I,m just going to leave it with saying if tshe SEaff has any thoughts on how we
types of housing, 24
hre
deal with specific
heard about that_type, styles, thats
kind of t.hing-that the reflectivity value of 30* is rea11y unfaj-r to the design and the 30? does not benefit the LOS GATOS PTANNING COMMISSION 1,0/2I/2O!5
Hillside Devefopment Standards and Guidelines Study Session
53
viewing chat much, we might want to consider some other rather language to deal with that' But for the moment I'd
1 2
be conservative and stay with the 3ot' but use the average As far as the solar goes, because thats was I
3
4 5
thought a good
6
address '7
point
we should address,
a questsion Eo the
'
I would really
Town Attsorney '
If I understand the speaker, the speaker said
we
8
reguire would have the rights under certain circumstances Eo
9
a use permit, buts the standards r heard her asserting of
10
11
hea].thandsafetydidn,tseemtohelpmeverymuchwhenit
13
comestsoaesthetics.somyquestsionsimplyisifweassume for tshe moments that it is restsrictsed to health and safety'
l4
which
15 15
!7 18
is not very hetpful, unless"' one example she used is blinding drivers as they come down tshe street' which has got tso be a Iittle rare. How much leeway' if at all' do we solar? have i.f the legislature is saying gee whiz' we love let's What ability do we have to say sofar is fine' but question' keep j-t so it isn't very ref l-ective? That's the
20
2L
ROBERT
SCHIILTZ: None'
COMMISSIONER O' DONNBLL: None?
' But we will soon' the the Planning Commission, really, I can't thj'nk of one in as part of a residentsial two years, and I asked ROBERT SCHIJLTZ: None
24
25
'Joe1,
LOS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION LO/21'/2OI5
Hillside Development standards and Guidelines StudY Session
54
1
project, they don't put the solar on there; after the fact
2
is
when
3 4
5 5
the solar comes in. We
make
are developing a policy in-house to try to
certain we capture those ones that
come forward
for
the solar that. have to be processed within three days over the counter in some (inaudible) , that the ones that are in
7
the Historical District and the ones that will in
t.he
8 9
10
hilIside, we'11 put an extra eye on them to there isn't something that we can do.
We
make
can
certain
recommend
11
changes that don't lncrease the cost by more than 91,000
r2
under it.
to
come
Erom an
internaf standpoint, we,re going to try
up with a policy that we try tso catch t.hose and
we
74
try to fook at them from the hifLside if they, re going to
15
be visible, and see if we can't make changes and get the
15
applicant to understand the importance of the reflection.
17
Maybe we'11
find it. I'm sure there are ones
on
18
Ehe
19
vlsually unappealing, but I don't believe any of them are
20
going to be blinding from a health and safety issue. I
hillside right now that have sofar that might
be
donrt see that as a toof that we can use to go Ehrough the use perrnit. COMMISSIONER 24
O'DONNELL:
That's kind of what I
thought, and I appreciate that, but f al-so assume t.hat
tos GATos PT,ANNTNG COMMISSTON L0/21,/20]-5 Hiffside DeveLopment Standards and Guidelines Study Session
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ta
3
4 5 6 7 8
Staff, even if a person came in with the whole package, i.e. the house, and said we're going to have solar, notwithstanding the limitsations of your ability, lt doesn't prevent you from saying that's pretty darned visible, can you do something? Because
I find a lot of our applicants
are pret.tsy responsible, reasonable people. So we may not able to say you must do it, but we could say here's
be
how
other peopte have done it, it would be much better for you,
9
10
your neighbors, and tshe community. So those are mY onIY comments.
11
ROBERT
12
SCHULTZ: We've
actually had a few in the
they're not on the homes, they're actually
13
hilfside
14
on the ground, so we've had those, and as long as those are
15
setbacks, then tshose can meet tshe reguirements also and
r-6
then we woul-dn't have that issue. L,ike you said, most
L7
applicants are very reasonable to try to
1S
different solution. If it's not going to be more than $l-, OOO cost. then lve can recommend it and require it.
19
20 2L
where
COMMISSIONER
COMMISSIONER
24
25
up with
a
DONNEL,L: Thank you.
VICE CTIAIR BADAME: COMMiSSiONCT KANE.
22 23
O'
come
KANE: Comm.issioner O'Donne11, you
shouldn't be so shy. It sounded fike a motion to me. At least it works for me. But since it's not a motion, before I-,OS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION IO / 2I / 2OI5
Hillside Development sEandards and Guidelines StsudY
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56
1
it
2
average 308, because somewhere f read there was a concern
3
about the average 308 insofar as most of Ehe trim being
4
fl,at black and the roof being flaming orange and it
becomes a motion
I,d like to discuss your view on the
averaged outs to 30t. If we want to consider 6
8
flexibility
some
on that, we should have a sine-que-non
maximum,
an average of 308, but at no point shal1 any material exceed 35*.
9
The average concerns me. The poj.nt was made it
10
11
could be 5, 5, 5 and GO, and so that. comes out to now we, re back to averages again, getting ourselves in trouble.
13
Flexibility
could have limits, but. nothing an)rwhere to
14
exceed 35E. Maybe we, re again going to shoot ourselves in
15
the foot, but if we desire the flexibility
16
the word "averager,, then we should have a
t7 18
2L
22 23 24
max as we11.
Tom, I thinl< the rest of what you did is a basis
for a mot.ion. COMMISSIONER
20
on tshe 3Og and
O'
DONNELL:
Let
me Eay two
things.
One, I agree wj.th what you just said about you
don't want to average if something is 5t. You can get carried
away
100E and something
is
with that, so I would agree
that that should be addressed.
LOS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION IO/21./2OI5
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secondly, however, this is a sludy session, and
of the Eession is we really ought !o just ualk its out and receive all the inputs, take it home, and perhaps ask staff, as I already have, and you impliciEly are asking staff, to make some more suggestions to us, and
my understanding
then when I comes before us at a regular meeti'ng, we'11 feef... We were asked to do this before and we felt not prepared. My understanding is this meeting is to help us be
9
10
prepared, not to make motions.
vIcE
11
COMMISSIONER
L2 13
CITAIR BADAME: Commissioner Kane '
KANE: Okay, my bad' Howewer'
everything he said should be wri.tten
down'
The other consideration was brought up by
L4
15
speakers and some of the text that we hawe where we talk
16
about the 24.52. Again, we're getting ourselves into
L7
18
19
trouble with averages, because I made tshe note that Bobby could put up a hut that's 100E visible, and no, he can't do that, and
somebody could puE up
a
Cov, PaLace
and only 24*
20
of its was visible. So if Staff could come up with a 2! bril1iants way of also having a cap similar to the cap on 23 24
25
guidance language the LRVs, a cap on maas or visibility, that cannot be hacked and hewed over time and turn ou! to
be nothing but watered down sentsiment ' Stay with the 24'58 LO/2I/2OI5 Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines study session I-,OS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION
58
1
if that's
2
14 square foot of bright orange be seen. I don,t have the language myself, but I know where percentages can get us j.n
3
4 5 6
what
we
want, and but in no case shall more than
trou.bIe, and we have some very large homes at 24.999999*, coincidentally, and they can been seen from Milpitas. So that's my concern with percentages.
'7
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thank 8
9
10
13 14 15 15
ahead. COMMISSTONER HANSSEN:
I
I looked through this
a bunch of comments, and I wanted to just share some of the things that I thought maybe needed to be addressed. First of all, I went back and reviewed the existing Hillside Development St.andards and Guidelines in relationship t.o these tswo sections, and compared to vrhat we have now, what, s proposed right now is infinitely
18
restrictive,
20
2t 22
and
made
\7
19
Kane.
Commissioner Hanssen, did you have your hand up? Okay, go
11
!2
you, Commissioner
maximum
less
and I wondered how we i,rere getting by with the
reflectivity
value of 30 on all components of the
house, because that, s what the language says now, and if
we
actually have houses that are out of compliance, or maybe this is relative to new houses. That would one comment I had.
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSTON 1O/2\/20:-5
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The second commenE I had is relative to the
1
3 4 5 6 ,7
8
calculation the proposed language talks about using the color averaging with the exception of any houses tshat are more than 25* visibl-e- So what happens tso tshe houses that
are more than 25& visible? Do they default to the old standard of notshing more than 3Ot? That was another question I had, and maybe I should just throw out al'] the questions before you answer each one of them' or do you
9
10
want to anstrler lhem af ter? VICE CHAIR BADAME: Can
11
t2 t-3
ft depends upon how many you have, because f Commissioner o'Donnell has to leave at 5:30' COMMISSIONER
L4 15
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN:
20
that's okay'
because
Do you want me
to stop
so
he can ask?
18
L9
O'DONNELI': But
know
I intend to catch up on what I'm going to miss'
15 L7
I interrupt real guickly?
VICE CIIAIR
opportunity to
bow
BA-DAME
: No, I was giving him an
out right now, but he's not' so go
ahead.
21-
COMMfSSIONER
O'DONNELL:
I'm staying for another
minute. 23
COMMISSIoNER HANSSEN: 24
25
Getting back to the color
averaging, I wondered if there wasn't a need for
some
Lo/2r/20as Hj.Ilside Developments Standards and Guidelines r..,os GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSTON
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1
definition about how the averagj-ng was to be done relative to is it alL of the surface area of the home, and then you
3
take an
I_,RV
value for each piece of it and then do a
weight.ed average, or how does the calculation work? 5
6 7
I 9
10 11
And Ehen relative t.o the actual colors that are
used, there, s reference to blending in with the natural vegetation, so does that mean that we need to consider
eliminating certain colors, for example, I mentioned ear1i,er, black? Maybe gray is okay, but not black. Maybe we don't say j-t because it,s defined as fitting in with the natural environment and it, will automatica).1y catch that,
I3
but f did wonder if there were any colors that shouLdn,t
L4
permi tted?
Then on tshe average
15 16 L7
itself,
I wondered if there
shouldn't be-I think Commissioner O,Donnell mentioned this_ a maximum, because I was looking at some of the colors,
18
like yel1ow and stuff,
19
awerage of all the colors, but maybe you don, t want the
20
2r
24
25
be
maximum IJRV
that you,d have an
window t.rim to be bright ye11ow, because in a square
footage weighted average you could in tsheory have yel1ow windows other than it doesn, t fit in with the environment,
but it
t violate the average. So I wondered if there shouldn't be Like the average can,t be more than 30, and wouldn,
IJOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSTON
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also no single measure could be more than, I don't know ' 50, 50, ?0, whatever mighE be an appropriate nudber ' Then on the
3
4 5 6
solar thing, in addition
tso
the solar
r have been taking a 1ot of course work in sustainability at Uc Davis, and when we went over t'his whole thing with roofs the encouragement is to do I-'RV systems
1
values that are much, much higher than 30, becauge if you I can't do a solar systerL.. So then it made me think should v'e
10
11
just ignore that because we don't want to affect visibilj'ty in tshe hillsides, or should we consider lt because of the value of the sustaina-bi1iEy, which is clearly defined in
74
the Hillside SEandards. I thought it put you on both sides of the issue and I wondered if we shouldn't think more
15
abou! that for tshe roofs in Partsicular' And then again' maybe it wouldn't be more than a maximum, but cfearfy with
l1
under 30 you wouldn't be abfe to do any sustainability wj-th
18
your roof, because it's going to be too dark' And I think
13
19 20
2L
that
was
it. VICE CHAIR BADAITIE: fharrk you, Commissioner
HEulssen. comnigsioner Talesfore.
I don't know where to go. I hawe Eo many; tshis is going to be a Iot' CoMMISSIoNER TALESEoRE:
24
25
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I think what I,m going to do, if I don.t get through this, I may submit some comments _
3
4 5
feel free to and we,l-1 incl-ude that in the next
JOEL PAULSON: Any Commissioner
submit written corunents
can
Planning Commission meeting.
5
COMMISSIONER TAIJESFORE: 7
I 9
But in the beginning, r
just wanted to say I look at this and I go what is our purpose and our inEent? And that is what is our purpose
i,n
10
looking at what we have here, but more holistic,
11
our purpose and intsent as far
L2
commissioners and people who make decisions? Wtro are
13
making the decisions
74
rea11y weighs. we are stewards of tshis town and al-L of the
15
documents
15
for the hillsides, and also for a Lot of other areas in town, historic areas.
L7
l-8 19
20 2). 22
24
that
for,
as
what is
being planning we
and what are the benefits? That
we have before us, and we have
very st.rong
documents
I think it was brought up, I heard a couple of comments tonight that reminded me that. when we move int.o certain areas of our town we rea11y have a responsibilitsy to maintain the areas that $re are moving into. Ttri s is a long lead into this, but here iE is. If I moved into the Almond Grove area and I move into a historic home, I,m going to have standards that I have to adhere to, but f LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMTSSION
do
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Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines Study Session
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willingly
1
thaE
2
to me, that's
4 5 6
I
wanted tso
my purpose and
If I
3
because
move
into
tshe
live there, and so chats
I wil-1 do that' hillsides, it
comes
with
a
just whole document Ehat people put Eheir lives into' as we heard from Ms. Quintana and otsher people on tshat committee' and t,he commissioners at that Eime, a whole plethora of
1
people. So for me, tshat comes with the resPonsibility tshat I I would love to l-ive here because it's a special place to 9
10
11 L2 13 14
15 16
live, but I'm hoping that the people that move in there understand tshat when you wants to liwe among the trees and the hills and the birds and all the other animals ' that we're trying to have you live there in a way that doesn't impact the hillsides tshemselves, and hopefully not all of
the animals that live thele, and that also don't impact the people here on the va11eY floor. Now why
L7
is that important?
BecauEe
in every other
18
documentsinourtowntshosehillsidesareourbackdrop.They
19
are the crown jewel of where we 1lve, and I can't te1l you how muctr it hurts me when I see tshings not as we intended
20
2L
.))
that people will understand s'hen they move into these areas to please take with you that responsibility that aren't you lucky to be abfe to live them
to be.
We
hope
24
25
here? So
that's
mY
lead in.
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1
3
4
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I
Let's just go to color averaging. f,m very passj-onate about $rhat f do up here. I don,t believe that there's anybody in this room that can rea1Iy taLk to us about color averag.ing. I understand coIor. I don,t.
know
that I could real1y understand this. There are coLor e>q)erts that make their living analyzing co1or, and so if we're going to move away from what we have here, what has t.o work all these years-except for t.he pink house f did see in the hillsides the other day srhen I was up there seemed
9 10
!2
looking at one of our projects, to Sandy, s point, but he left-then f would suggest, and I would strongl-y suggest,
13
that we do
11
r4 15 15
r1 18
19 20
2t
24
25
investigatlon and possibly look for somebody who makes their living with color analysis that could actually come and help our town and maybe gi.ve us a color standard program that could update us if we have some
missed something. I coul-dn,t tel-l you what is 30 average of a house, and are you averaging the whole house? Is it going
to be al-I sides? There are too
many complications.
So that would be my sug.grestion. Other than that, I think what we have here seems tso be working. Maybe there
is every once i-n a while, and f think it happened with the Davj.don project that came before us one time and you asked for some color averaging and that was aIlowed, but that was LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMfSSION to/2t/2o:'s Hillside Development. Standards and Guidel-ines
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not starE under a very specific circumstance ' and r would
1
intotshisco]-olaveraging.Whoisgoingtodecidethaton Staff? Who would decide tshat? How would that be decided'
2 3
4
,.Ioe 1?
5
JOEL PAULSON: We'd
be using the model that the
It is Council approved for Davidon' It's very thorough'
6 1
I 9
10
11
t2
of all of the exterior matserials and tshe is LRv of those individual materials' and then its of determined whether or not it compli'es with the average
weighted average
you 30 or noE. It's the same conversation we had' as mentioned, that wenE to Council' and Council actually
13
directedStafft,obringthatbacktolookatthisopuion
14
foroEherhillsidehomes,andsothat'swhywe'rehere
15
before You now.
16 11
L9 20
2l 22 23
a
CoMMISSIoNER TALESFoRE:
Then if that's the case'
Iwouldliketoseeareviewofthat'Imeanhowthat's determined, if it's so formulaic' JOEL PAULSON:
I'11 forward you the meetings
and there where it came to Planning comnission and Council '
areanumberofexhibitstshatsgenerallylooklikethis. but I think COMMISSIONER TALESEORE: That's fine' for me, I would sEiII thinl< that
we need
to
maybe consult
24 25
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1
with
2
they may have
somebody and perhaps update what we some
are doing. I
mean
other ideas.
I,d just fike to j ump in with a quick question for Staff along those Iines. up until now with Davidon Homes, have we had any requests in the l-1 VICE CHAIR BADAME:
4
6
years since our Hillside Development Standards
7
I
and
Guidelines were adopted to deviate from our coLor regulat.ions?
9
JOEL pAULSON:
10
Not that I,m aware of, but just
r2
from a background perspective, I think it. was 1997 when the previous Hillside Development standards and Guidelines were
13
adopted-f,m looking at Lee j-n case my year is off_before
14
the 2004 version; that. was the first
11
15 16
time
LRV compliance
Hillside Guidelines. From that point up until Decedber 2014 St.aff had interpreted that as the main body came intso tshe
r7
color of the house; we didn,t l-ook at casement co.Iors of
18
windows, 2x5 tsrim. We looked at t.he main body of the house,
19
and if it was natural material.s, then we didn, t apply that, because they, re naturaf material-s and wouLd bLend with the
20
2L
hi11side. When Davidon,
23 24
the Planning Commission
s request who made
came forward
it went to
ttre recommendation to
Council. Council said no, we should be Looking at all of IrOS GATOS PITANNING COMMTSSTON ro/T-/201_5
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the exterior materj'af s, and so that's when this col-or averalJe, which was exactly what they had proposed to do' was brought. forward and
that was looked
ats'
of the conversations that we've had tonight' one specifically relating to whether there should be a cap' aIId whats thaE nurnlcer should be, for any materials so that you don't end up with a white house with a bl-ack roof' or a Some
black house with a white roof from a sustainability perspective. So I think those are things that we can
definitely look ats, and we'lf look to other jurisdictions' I know there was some information provided to cor:ncil on four or five otsher jurisdictions' some semihillside settings thaE have higher LRv caps. I think the county's cap is 45' and there are some others that were up to 60' Now, they weren't average and we don't know the details of whether they're looking at main body or they're looking at all the exterior Iocal and
eome
elsewhere, witsh
19
matserials, but jusE from a background perspective ' so
20
everyone has
that
background.
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thank you,
Mr'
Paulson '
Commissioner Kane '
If you have a model and you consider it. fair and reasonable for some varietsy on the COMMISSIoNER
24
25
KANE:
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house, then I'm okay with that. Cap it at some reasonabl-e
2
number, 35, 35.9, but. just prevents the abuse of the
3
ave.rage, that's all.
4 5 6
COMMISSfONER TALESFORE:
And in fact how would
that happen? I think that,s why I don,t find this foolproof
.
7
I 9
10
anything that, s going to be foolproof. COMMISSIONER TALESFORE:
11
JOEL PAULSON:
r2
COMMISSTONER
13
.IOEL pAt LSON:
14
15
I don,t think we,re going to get
JoEL PAITLSON:
f think you,re right.
f don,t want to lead you astray.
TALESFORE:
In all these years.
But looking at should
someone be
able to have a window that has a white casement where you' re talking about from the va1ley f1oor, a 2,, perimeter
16
around it with grids, iE that something thats we should be
!7
looking at? Or j-f it,s 2x6 trim that, s white or beige, is that really going to be that visible from the vaIley floor?
18
19
20
So I think there are a Iots of options there that. we can
Iook, but ( inaudible) cap.
2t COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: 23 24
25
Or where they could be,
if it was maybe the front of the house would be less int.rusj,ve than the back of t.he house, but who, s going to watching all this stuff? IJOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMISSION
be
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1 2 3 4 5
JOEI-, PAITLSON: We wants
well as the architsecture COMMI
S
s
the 35o-degree color
as
.
IoNER TALESFORE:
Rights' But I think then
there was one thing in here about Ehe I-'Rv and the average ' and tshis whole thing abouts some applicants have e><pressed
6
concerns to Stsaff regarding application of this
7
requirement, "New homes would have light colored trim"' but
8
then it goes on to say, "A new accessory structure or addition to an exj-sting residence constructed"' this is
9
10
11
on
page 3 of the report, "prior to the adoption of the
13
Hillside Developmen! Stsandards and Guidelines would need to confonn to the LRV requirements requiring painting or
r4
changing the materials for the entire house to meet the
15
30 and having the addiEion that's," b1ah, blah, blah' "the
16
different color, and this would result in significant
L7
cost to the
L2
18
19 20
2L 22 23
homeowner
Ihey
r,sould
added
"
probably have to do that anymy if
they vrere repairing or adding onto their home, because when your house is already painted, it hard to match that color' and most people end up
painting the entire house' so to
that's just not a compelling reason' JOEL PAULSON: That's a pretty
24
25
.
L,RV
hear. It's the
same
thing with the white
common
thing
me
we
casement windows'
LOS GATOS PI-,ANNTNG COMMTSSToN to/2l/20!5 HiLfside Developments SEandards and Guidelines StsudY Session
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re going to
1
so
2
an LRV casement of less than 30 when they, re changing out one window. we see things that are just at. the building
3
4 5 5
we'
make them replace
all 0f their windows to
permit 1eve1, and we hawe a number of houses if it was built before 1997 they don,t have the deed restriction. COMMISSIONER TALESFORE:
1
Right. WeI1, then those
would be on a case-by-case. 8
.IOEL PAULSON:
9
10
cases. COMMISS
11
t2 13
l4 15
15
r1
19 20
2l
fONER TALESFORE: Do you?
yes. Right now the requirements are that all exterior materials must be LRv 30 or 1ess. and so we're looking at those on a case_by_case basis, but it,s JOEL PAIIIJSON:
just one of those issues that as we move forward. And even any house from 199? to 2Of4, some of them have white trim, of them have white windohrs, and they have the restriction. some
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE:
hiflsides you,11 see that not alL JOBL PAITLSON:
23
Sure, but we have a Iot of lhose
deed
r think if you go in the
homes
are brown either.
Very true, and some of that is
because they, re more reguired to meet the LRV, because they didn't have the deed restriction from t. j-ming.
25
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COMMI
SS
IONER TALESFORE:
Right' And how can we
can't be enforcing that' How do we even check aII of that? I mean, reafl-y' It's hard to monitor' JOEL PALI-'SON: Its is trard to monitor ' where I talked CoMMISSIoNER TALESFoRE: That's
fof lovl? 3 4
6
We
about the responsibility,
and whats Rob broughts uP about
lle we're trying to make appli-cants ar''are and responsible' I could have tshem sign a document ' I don'ts know '
7
9
10 11
t2
You know what? I can't go on' so I'l-L submi't
my
to leave' Thank otsher comments in writsing, okay? I have you. VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thank
13
you' Commissioner
15
you next time' Talesfore for your comments, and we will see you had your I will look to Commissioner Erekson; I believe
16
hand uP.
l4
t'7 18
19 20
COMMISSIONER EREKSON: TO ThC
public testimony
abouE tshe impact
of
StAff,
dj'f
WC hAVE
ferent materials on
whatever' ref lectj.ve value using the same paint color or how r however you look au its' I need help understanding
2t
reflective value and variation in and materials, and how to think about reflective value
23
different archltecturaf styles ' 1'd like help in issue understanding how r should think abouc the trim
24
25
should think alrout
LOS GATOS PT,ANNTNG COMMrssroN
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Hiflside Development Standards and Guidelines S
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4
5
the fuII body of the house, and the roof and the body of the house. If I should think about those together, if f should have its together, if I should think about it
differently, arld what the differential
impact.s
of
those
are.
6
I mights suggest tshat we have a consulting architect for the Town $rho has a 1ot of experience in the I Town, and it might be useful or helpful to ask him to 9 7
10 11 L2 13 14 15
comment
on some things abouts architsectural sEyle and those
kinds of things. They would be impartial. f,m not suggesting that other architects who represent other
projects aren, t objective, but the consultj-ng architects essentially work for the Town. So that, s one comment about colors
.
One general comment.
16
I have about people being
t7
concerned about their having the e)q)ense of it,
18
taken by the Town to change a standard or a gmideline is a
19
21
in time, and it moves forward, and there are reasona.ble ways to grandfather the past, and reasonable
moment
reasons to grandfather some of the practices in the past
that aren't the 23 24
any action
bests
practices going forward.
But t.o the extent t.hat we have wisdom and we wan! to reshape somethj"ng going forward in the future as people LOS GATOS PTJANNTNG COMMTSSTON ro/27/2o1.5
Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines SEudy Session
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I think they should be e)q)ected to update those things. We can't 90 through the hillside and tefl everybody to repainE all their homes by six months from now, but as changes occur I think lt's reasonable to think about trying tso adoPt a new standard ' It doesn't bother me partsicularly to adopt a new standard; tshat happens all the
make changes,
1
time. Building codes change, people have to update things I that happens afl the time, so that's not a new problem' 9
The other thing I would like to say is Davidon
10
11
Homes has been
used, and a particular project in town has
L2
been used, as an example over and over and over in
13
context of these discussions. I'd just like to say for
14 15 15
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19 20 21-
'
tshe me
thisdiscussionisnotsaboutsonedevelopment,nota.boutone developer, and so I think we don't want to over-utilize and pot.ent.ially victimi.ze one person or one developer ' They may be doing a good job and they may be no! doing a good job' r
don't know, but that's really at some leve1 irrel-evant to these discussions. rf there are issues with that' one
with respect to today's standards or futsure standards, that's really not part of this discussion. We should be thinking about what's right for
particular
the
development
Town and
right for the hillsides of
tshe Town' because
24
I-,OS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION
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thaE represents only a very smal1 portion of the hillsides
2
of the Town. So that,s two generalized
3
4
comments.
The other co[unent, f,m going to make
some
conments about trees, if that, s okay.
5
VICE CHA]R BADAME: Of course. 6
COMMISSIONER EREKSON: 7
I 9
10
11 1-2
14 15 15
17
Trees are obviously living
things. and as people are, some trees are healthy, some trees are not as healthy, and all t.rees, all trees, hawe lifespan.
a
we,re doing any kind of visiblfity analysis and the coverage, werre viewing it at a moment in time, at a moment in Eime in the history of the Town, and a moment When
in time of the lifespan of all of those trees. I'm trying to figure out hov, 1f I shoul-d think about leaving out sparse canopy trees, for example. or leawing out trees tshat are in poor condition as countingt toward the... Shoul-d I ask the arborist tell me the average,
18
te11 me the remaining life eq)ectancy of every tree also?
19
Hypothetically a tree could be in reasona.ble good condition and have a very short life expectancy left too, so j-t, s not
20
2L
clear to
me how we can
exclude trees that are there
just
because they have somelhing, because we need to be in Ehe 24
business ultimately of reforestation in t.he Town and
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replenishing the tsrees, because all tsrees will die' AI1 trees do die, and we need to replenish them ' 1'm intrigued by the deed restriction idea in
t2 3
we have a
particular"'
Whatever
4
propertles so that if
5
standard we hawe, whatever
6
and we worrying about what Ehats stsandard is for the momenc ' then apply thats standard and someone passes tshe standard'
1 8 9
10
that
stsandard
is'
wiEhouts
hillsides can we creaEe an ongoing responsibilitsy in the for tshats homeowner, for the owner of Ehat property' to
L4
restriction on thats so have to that. they replenish and reforest' which is goi'ng tso be done, no maEEer whether they pass the thing' whether just barely stretch by? tstrey were way up here passing it or
15
we
11 L2 13
16 17 18
19 20
2r
maintsain
all-
that by
know
some
sort of
deed
the trees are going to die someday' so I'm
intrigued bY how ire do that ' I al-so don't know fulty
to understand how I a deal with the fact that someone is going to be doing project ats a moment in time, we're goj'nq to take visibility how
season analysis at this moment, and that's at a particular of the year. So do we use as the standard the least amount of coverage tshat is provided by a tree and the season tshe
most amounE of coverage 24
project is being...or
is, irrespective of
some average
when the
of that over time to give
!O/2\/2Oj.5 Hillside Development standards and Guidelines Study session LOS GATOS PI-,ANNING COMMISS]ON
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the most exposure or the least elq)osure or some average of that, or do we take the moment in time when they, re making the proposaf? I can,t figure out for myself.
coverage, then ho!,, is it fair?
with having
figure out
2t
someone postpone moving
who
25
forward on a project
are trying to develop properties? I
can,
t
to sort aII that out for myself. I probably have fots of other thoughts, but f,Ll lets it go at that. how
VfCE CHAIR BADAME: Thank you, Commissioner
Erekson, Any other comments? Commissioner Kane. COMMfSSIONER
24
do we judge fairness
to do something, so how do we deal $rith that issue and make its both represent what we want it to do with prot.ectsing the hillsides and views, but not being unreasonable and ulfair
L7
20
Hov,
simply because, for example, they couldn,t get financing? A11 kinds of reasons happen that dictate when you, re trying
to people
19
to sort af1 that out
If we're using the least coverage as the standard-I,m not suggestj-ng we should, I,m just using that as an example-and lre were nine months away from t.he least
16
18
how
KANE:
I
was
talking earlier
about.
the concept of trees and landscaping as a tertiary consideration on visibility,
and
I think the point is
made
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION TO/2I/201.5 j-nes
Hillside Development Standards and Guidel St.udy Session
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on pages 2 and 3 of Dr. Weissman's letter of September
1
15Eh'
and when I say the point is made, r mean philosophically'
"Providing landscape screening is not an alternative to reducing building height or sefecting a fess visible site"'
4 5 6 7
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Now
I bel-ieve there he's quoting a meetj-ng of the Planning
Commissionfrom20Ogorthereabouts,itdoesn,tmatter. wtrat matsters is-and I'1I foLlow thj-s up in writing-he captures tshe aspecE of visibifity not tso be compromised with tsrees and bushes, which as commissioner ErekEon points
out
may be temporary, and
for maintaining that kind of flora' That's good, but we don't police folks and we don't always know what happens on construction sites' and healthy we don't have a daily reference to a tree that's going to and a tree that's suddenly falling down' What I'm on writse in terms of my tshoughts is nots tso put an emphasis the screening, buts rather put an emphasis on the purpose of
Hillside Guidelines
20 21-
he's interested in the contract
.
By the way, copy
of
Commissioner
if
I'd lj-ke a remarks' I was
we were taped tsonight
Talesfore's openi-ng
over here weeping. wanted to stand up and cheer' and I'm to reasonably serious, because she put it rea11y well as 24
25
what our job
is, as long as we have the job' and it's to
LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSToN
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protect. I don,t want to namedrop, but I used to tal-k to Wasserman a 1ot when f $ras new, and I said I don,t want this, and I don,t want that. He said, ..We have an obligation to the people that exist, but we al-so have an obligation to the people yet to come that we wer-come them.,, So there are two considerations there, and I don,t want to bury the second consideration about our future citizens, but I also don,t want to give away our purpose in protecting the hills, and ,Joanne said it reaIly weII. I won't try to repeat j-t, but I woufd think that, s why we,re all up here. So time sha11 not erode the equity and we ought
not. 1et. our lang.uage get eroded for what the purposes were back in tshe garly 2OOos or the firsE draft came up in 199?.
I lived through
some
of that period, and what happens to
prohibitive Language is erosion and nerr, precedent setting, and now we,ve got a house divisible, so why can,t I have a house divisible? f made a comparison in the Marat/Sade scene where the guy finally walks in and says, ..Marat,
may
I keep this king?,, I mean things erode, and f,d like to think that what. our mission is on looking at at Least these two provisions of the hillside is to stop the erosion, and where and as appropriate return to Ehe original intent, LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION AO/27/20:-5
Hillside Development Standards and cuidefines Study Session
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which was to Protect the hillsides,
1
have to become matshematicians on
and if thats means
24 ' 5?,
we
however nothing to
had exceed 359, that's aII gamesmanshiP and chess. If we
3
discretionary language as is on those
Ewo Pages
4
stsrong
5
referenced, then maybe we could beef it up a littIe
6
going forward in the future'
1
I don't
know how we can address
concerns me the most when 9
10 11 L2
of the
was a way
bit in
What
I sit up trere is the heartbreak
new neighbors nots getsting what
were goj-ng to
this'
I
they tshought tshey
get. Our job is to be impassionatse ' If there we could say everybody who goes up tshere has
that
15
to get a copy of tshis stsuff, so they know that some of it is onerous, and j-f you're a normaf citizen and you read it for the firsts time, you'd think it's ridicufous' And if
15
you're new and you just pai-d a gazilJ-ion dollars to get
l1
whaE
13
r4
you want,
we could deal
it's not fair to see these things'
with
nots the homeowners
19
precede Ehe homeovrners
20
know rrhat
2t 22
24
25
' but
So
I
wish
tshose i''ho
to say please ensure Uhat the folks
theY're uP against' Justs
like she said,
when you move
into
an
Historic DisErict, when you move intso the hillgides' we I have these things, and I don't want to disappoint and don't want to hurt, but I wish everybody knew what is up in LOS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION LO/2L/2OI5
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1
front of us so they don,t look at us like we,re idiots, if they do it,s understandable, because they don,t
3
unde.rstand where it came from, they don,t understand why
4
5
6 7
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10
11 L2 13 L4
15 15
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have 1t, and they don,t understand what it is, And when
try to be good government, our first priority should communicat.ion with the people to know what it is.
27 22
24
we
we
be
to court has a lawyer, and this lawyer says that, and that lawyer says this, and it,s Everybody who goes
aLl about persuasion.
So when you have a vested
interest
you could sound persuasive, and the homeowners may
or
may
not be abLe to see through that, or not hear what they, re being t.oId, and I wish there was a way we could write language and get signed receipEs on Hillside standards and
Guidelines from ewery new Los Gatos citizen, our new neighbor who is going Eo move up there, that they know what we have. And maybe the same thing for the Historic District. as well
19 20
and
.
It really bot.hers us. ft did and
it does nohr, that peopfe
can,
me
terl years
ago,
t get what they thought
they were going to get because a brrnch of gnrys are going to p 1ay nickel and dime. We, re not pl-aying nickef and dime; I wish we had a better r{,ay of communicating that. Okay.
rJos GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION rO/2L/2OLs
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VICE CHAIR
t-
BADAME:
Thank
you, Commissioner
Kane '
Commissioner Hanssen. COMMISSIoNER HANSSEN:
3
I know we only have a few of
4
minutes Ieft, but I appreciate all the
5
fellowcommissionersandlthinkthey'reallgoodones'My general feeling about where we stand right now is that the
6 1 8 9
10
commentss
my
HillsideGuidelinesweredevelopedsometimeago,andtshen there is this coupl-e of specific things that we're being asked to look ats in tserms of modifying the documents
'
I didn't speak earlier about the trees' but in
11.
L4
ttrecaseoftreesandalsothecololanalysislthinkEhe proposed language that the Staff has created in both cases general ly provides more claritsy and specificity to the
15
exist ing document and would be more helpfut tso the
L2 t-3
The only question that remains is in ttre case of
15 L7 18
t9
Town '
the color analysis, adding in the entire surface of the does house versus just che main body color of the house create
some issues about
the averaging and whats happens; I
20
brought those up earlier.
2L
of tshe trees' I love whats Staff already came up with. I wondered if we woufdn't benefit Dr' from having a littsIe bit more time, because I tshinl< their Weissman and Ms. Quintana put a 1ot of tsime into
22 23
24
In
Ehe case
LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSToN ]-o/21/20L5
ttj.Llside Development Standards and Guidelines Study Session
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thoughts on it,
2
of the questions that were in our packet for today. I,d feel betster if we actually did talk through a couple of
3
4
6
and we didn,t reaIly get to go tshrough each
those questions and have a consensus from the Commission about it, because f Ehink that to not go forward with this
is a mistake, because it,s going to add specificity where we don't have it now, and even in the current state without I amendments it's going to make it easier to determine how to 9 7
10
do a viewing analysis, for example, bett.er. VfCE CHAfR BADAME: Thank you, Commissioner
11 L2 13 14
Hanssen- we are out. of time, and r see commissioner Erekson
nodding his head, as if in agreement that maybe another study session is warrant.ed? Commissioner Erekson.
15 15
r7 18 19 20
2r 22
24
COMMISSIONER EREKSON:
I,d 1ike to add one real-
quj.ck tshing for the Stsaff. I am concerned about. how if we continue to use a percentage of visibllity how we should
thinl< about larger homes versus smaller
homes.
f,m not sure, Vice Chai-r Badame, that we need another study session, but. I did find the questions that were
in the
Weissman/euintana
thing very helpful . Whether I agree r4riEh thej.r answers or not is in question, but I thought the questions were right on and I thought they were
rJos GATOS PLANNTNG CoMMTSSION
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Hillside Development Standards and cuidelines Study Session
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1
very Ehoughtsful resPonses, and they caused me to think
2
about some
of
mY answers.
I think if the Staff could structure Ehe item' as they often do when it's agendized, again' and carefully walk us through the questions, and we did that deliberatsely
3
4 5
same time Ehat we could accomplish both obj ectives at the without having another session and then moving this furtsher
6
1
I
and furtsher out intso Ehe future '
9
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thank 10
11
you' That was my
like to thank thought process as wel-1' So at this point I'd
13
This is stsaff for tsheir proposed draft and modifications' so I am becoming even more complex with more information'
l4
any confident that the Planning Department will welcome
L2
15 15
!7 18 19
20
2r
23 24
25
and from email suggestions or inquiries from Commissioners and respond tso tshe public and take those intso consideration are ready tso us ats our Ptanning Commission hearing wtren we the take action as far as a motion on these itsems' Does ourn? stsaff have anytshing to add to that before we adj probalcly continue I-,AITREL PREVETTI: We should
thismeetingtoadatecertain'andlthinkgiventshe questions that were asked j-n the Staff analysis that's going to be needed, probably the Decedber
9Eh
would be the
meeting chat we would be prepared Eo come back' 1'O/2I/20I5 Guidelines and Hiflside Development Standards SEudY Session LOS GATOS PI,ANNING COMMISSION
84
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VICE CHAIR BADAIIIE: So you we do another
3
4 5
are recommending that
session, in essence that itrs continued?
LAUREL
pREVETTf: No, not to a stsudy session, but
to your regular session that, s schedul,ed for the ?:00 o, clock hearing.
December 9tb,
6
VICE CHAIR BADAIIE: Okay. Commissioner Kane. 7
COMMfSSfONER 8
9
10
KANE: Give me a sense of what you
see the agenda as being for November and December.
We have
two months where-you now lrhat I,m going to say_people want
13
to build houses, they want to do this, they want to do that. I hate de1aying. I,d sooner meet on Christmas Eve if f had to rather tharr make them waiE another month. we
14
shouldn't do that.
11 L2
15
15 L7 18 19 20 2L 22
But this particular subject may take a long time. We've been here two hours and maybe werve scratched the
surface, and maybe we, re done, because three of us are rnissing, and you know how much we ta1k. I,m not opposed to a study session. Getting here at 4:00 o, clock is Like ripping off epidermis, I work, but I,d rather do that, and of course it's up to you, you can reconunend. ff vre have for people that are waiting t.o get things done, I would look to making the ef fort., the sacrifice, to get here agendas
23 24 25
for a study session and keep on doing what LOS GATOS PLANNTNG COMMTSSTON
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re doing,
to/21/2o]-5
Hillside Development St.andards and Guidelines Study Session
85
1
becau s e
get
its
it's really important, and it's important that we right, but no! ats the e>Ctr)ense of applicants s'ho want
ge! things done.
3
tso
4
certainly appreciate the consideration and balancing the long-term protection of our communi ty, as was articulated by many of the Commissioners this evening, with those applicanEs tshat are currently in
6 1
LAITREL
PREVETTI: And we
8
process. 9
are continuing to process the applications that are before us given tshe current guideline standards and ordinances, and please know that uftimately P1ease know
10
11 L2
that
we
14
it's the Counci] that will' have to make any decisions on the changes to the guidelines, so even if the Planning
15
Commission and stsaff couLd work as expeditsiously as
16
possible, there would stsiII be the calendaring and the
L7
decisions uhat the Council would have to
13
18 19
20 2L 22 23
r would say thats if you would like another study session, our ability given our workload and stsaffing' would sti11 puts us in Decedber. Decedber 2'd could be a opportuniEy
for anottrer study session to work through the
questions and any additsional SLaff recommendatsions '
I don't want the rest of the Comrnission to hate me, but I'm just sayi-ng we have one COMMISSIONER
24
25
make'
KANE:
r.,os GATOS PI-,ANNTNG COMMTSSTON tO/2t/2OL5 Hillside Development Stsandards and Guidelines
study session
86
1
lmeeting
in
November and one meeting j,n December, and
this subject
3
to be one of those meeEings, people going to be !,rait ing until February to build houses.
4 5 5 7
9
10 11
l2 13
was
pREVETTf: They,re not
LAITREL
waiting,
you've heard in prior testimony, but there are ways to keep the process going. rt's just that with the issues that were
raised tonight, and given the projects that are already scheduled for your consideration, it,s going to take some Staff work, and so a special meeting on December 2od is one
15
have the holidays
15
COMMISS
77
VICE CHAIR BADAI|E: yes, Comissioner Kane.
18
24
25
don,
t
know
if
December 2od
we would be ready
in
November.
Iile
.
fONER
COMMISSIONER
20
23
we
already have gnridelj-nes and ordinances that can gets them through the process now. I know we have one housing builder who is eager to see resolution on color averaging, as
option. I
2t
are
because
14
19
if
I(ANE:
Madam
Chair?
I(AtitE: Can we ask and see
if
is acceptable to Commissioners present?
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Wel-l,
yes, go ahead. I,m kind
of concerned that we, re missing three Commissioners. I,m just wondering if we do a po11 at a later date, but we can certainly ask the Commissioners present. Commissioner Erekson.
LOS GATOS PIJANNING COMMISSION 1.0/21./20:-5
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CoMMI
SS
IoNER EREKSON: My guess
is thats Ehe
complexity of this arld the number of questions thats one 11-:30 needs to wade through could easily take from 7:00 to
2 3
4 5 6
7 8 9
10 11
!2 13 L4
15 16 L1
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20 2L 22
s on a particular night. In response to Commissioner Kane' concern, it might be appropriate to think about scheduling
a special meeting of the Commissi'on justs for this topic and not agendize anyEhing else for thaE' and even if tshat were points in Deceniber 2od and tshe SEaff could be ready by thats time. But I'm not presuming that they could' because I'm sensitsive to the fact that our planning stsaff are leaderless aE this
moment
VICE CHAIR
.
BADAME:
Commissioner Kane, does thaE
sound agreeable tso you? COMMISSIONER
I(ANE:
How
does it differ
not sure. Let's do something on December VICE CHArR BADAIi!E: Would
from"' I'm
2od'
it be open for public
communicationE? iIOEL PAULSON:
Yes'
We
can contsinue
it tonights to
poll the rest of the Commission' we'11 to send out an email this week, and then we'II also have check availability of tshe chambers '
Decedber 2od. 9{e'11
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Commissioner Hanssen' 24 25
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) 3
4 5 5
COMMfSSIONER HANSSEN:
I,m avaifabLe on the 2d. I would prefer it to be a special meeting. I think that we should try to advance this forward and make a decision, because we could spend many, many meetings just discussing it, and I think we should put that on the agenda.
But I
8
thinl< the idea of making it a separat.e meeting from other ag'enda items, because I do think it wi1l take a few hours
9
to get to a motion that we can have consensus on.
7
10
VICE CI{AfR BADAITiE: Agreed.
11
COMMISSIONER
r2
VfCE CHAIR BADAME: Wel-l, we,
13
re not making
a
motion though, or are we making a motion? JOEL PAUISON:
1-4
15
KANE: Motion to continue to...
you,re going to make a motion to
continue this item.
15
VICE CHAIR BADAME: A11
to continue the item to
77
motion
18
certain.
19
ROBERT SCHIIT.,TZ: 20
right, let,s
Deceriber
make a
2d, the date
At what time?
VfCE CHAIR BADAME:
T tOO?
2L
COMMTSSIONER
VICE CI{AfR BADAME: 5:00?
23
COMMISSIONER EREKSON:
24
25
KANE: 6:00?
it's
7:
I,ll
second the motion if
00 o, c]ock. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMTSSION lo/2:-/20t5 Hillside Development Standards and GuideLines
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VICE CHAIR BADAME:
1
CoMMISSIONER 3
want
wait a
second '
I(ANE: 7:OO o'cfock is what you
?
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Commissioner Kane
4 5
said 6:00
o'cfock.
5
COMMISSIONER }(ANE
3 7:00 o'cl-ock' I'II
second the
'1
mot
I
ion
.
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Al-l-
9
10
11
in favor? I'II
calL the
question. Unanimous. All rights' do we trave any further reports from staff?
15
justs I have one Commission ma!tser' and I would the back like to do a sbout-out to a gentleman sittsing in He comes to all row and wish him a HaPpy Birthday tonight ' so of our hearings and he's here tonight on his birthday'
16
Happy Birtshday. There
L7
fignrre iE outs. The meeEing is adj ourned '
L2 13
!4
are two of you back there' so you
18
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2l
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]-o/2t/20as Hil,lside Development Standards and Guidelines Los
GATOS PT,ANNTNG COMMTSSToN
StudY Session
90
