Francis City Planning Commission Meeting February 23, 2017
Francis City Planning Commission Meeting February 23, 2017 Francis City Planning Commission Meeting Thursday February 23, 20017 7:00 PM 2319 South Spring Hollow Road Francis, UT 84036
Present: Commissioner Trent Handsaker, Commissioner Casey Vorwaller Commissioner Mark Littleford, Commissioner Amy Mortell, Planner Marcy Burrell, Engineer Kettle and Planning Secretary Susan Moses Excused: Commissioner Jason Averett Other Present: Bob Allen, Ray Peterson, Mac Cox, Morgan Cox, Collet Mattson, Elaine Robb, Jan & Sherri Brussel, Jill Gawreluk Call Meeting to Order: Planner Burrell called meeting to order at 7:03 p.m. and introduced the Planning Commission Vote on new Planning Commission Chair and Co-Chair for 2017 Commissioner Handsaker motioned Casey Vorwaller for Planning Commission Chair. Commissioner Mortell seconded the motion. All voting in favor. Motion passed. Commissioner Vorwaller motioned for Commissioner Handsaker Planning Commission Co-Chair. Commissioner Littleford seconded the motion. All voting in favor. Motion passed Public Hearing with possible action: Southfields Preliminary Subdivision Planner Burrell read staff report.
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Francis City Planning Commission Meeting February 23, 2017 Public Hearing Opened Those who commented on the proposed subdivision are Morgan Cox, Collet Mattson, Elaine Robb, Jill Gawreluk, Jan Brussel and Mac Cox. All live on Gines Lane and all are opposed to this development. Comments were made about: 1. We need to have larger lots in this part of Francis not ½ acre lots 2. We need to maintain our rural atmosphere 3. We need to preserve our agricultural heritage 4. Concerned Gines Lane is too small to add more traffic 5. Concerned about safety on Gines Lane if there is more traffic, residents will not be able to continue to ride horses, bikes or walk on Gines Line 6. Concerned about the quality of air and adding more homes and cars will contribute to air pollution 7. Concerned about the impact of growth on our water, sewer, schools and roads 8. We need to follow the General Plan 9. Concerned we will over build and lose the quality of life we enjoy Jill Gawreluk asked how many homes will exit off of Gines Lane. Planner Burrell answered lots 11 and 12 will have driveways off of Gines Lane. The rest will enter and exit off the road into the subdivision. Mr. Peterson asked if it would be allowed to do a shared access with lots 11 and 12. Engineer Kettle answered we could look at that. Elaine Robb asked if this was already approved and our input does not have any impact. Co-Chair Handsaker responded as far as the Planning Commission it does not matter whether our opinion is for or against, we are an advisory board and we are administrative. Our duty is make sure it meets our code and if it does we forward it on to the City Council. Chair Vorwaller stated ours is an administrative duty and the emotional appeal is for the City Council. The Planning Commission has to see whatever is being proposed fits whatever zoning it is going into to make sure it follows all of the rules of that zone, if it does not then we can make a motion to throw it out or amended it. As far as denying it or requiring a complete change we do not have that authority.
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Francis City Planning Commission Meeting February 23, 2017 Jill Gawreluk asked where do we go for zoning, who makes the decisions for zoning? Chair Vorwaller answered the City Council. Engineer Kettle stated we are going to update the General Plan, come to the meetings and give your input. It starts with the Planning Commission and then it goes to the City Council and they approve, make changes or deny it. Morgan Cox expressed his concern that while we are working on the General Plan Developers keep coming in and these subdivisions keep getting built. Chair Vorwaller stated unfortunately we cannot put a moratorium on any construction in Francis while we try and figure out what it is the General Plan is going to become. That is an ever developing beast that we are trying to work on right now and it can be very frustrating. Jan Brussel asked when you talk about the Codes what weight does the General Plan or the intent of the General Plan carry, is that part of the criteria or are those suggestion that are overridden by the zoning density. Planner Burrell explained the General Plan, the Development Code and the different zoning. Bob Allen explained the difference between the General Plan and the Development Code and reminded the time to get involved is when we start updating the General Plan. Chair Vorwaller commented the Planning Commission Members live here to, we are your neighbors, we live here for the same reasons you live here and we love this place. Vorwaller stated he drives 65 miles a day to go to work and there is no way he will ever move down into the valley. He loves being here and loves the feel of this place. The reason they serve on the Planning Commission is to make sure they can influence that Francis grows correctly, if it is going to grow. We can’t keep people out. We can affect how the City develops and how it grows and what we have. Commissioner Littleford commented he moved into this valley 48 years ago and what I wanted to see is not what I see now. When people started to move in I did not like it, but it is America and if they meet the codes they can move around as they choose. It is hard to separate the emotion. If it is going to grow we need to have a concept of what we want it to look like and we need to retain those values. Page 3 of 6
Francis City Planning Commission Meeting February 23, 2017 If the Plan is there and we are an advisory board our task is to make sure it is legal, and it is our job to make recommendations to the City Council. Bob Allen gave an assignment to everyone. What does rural mean to you? Then he stated the answerer cannot be “no more houses.” Allen asked that they share that information with Planner Burrell so it can get back to the Planning Commission and they can try and work with that. Mr. Peterson commented when he first came in they wanted to do a cul-de-sac but that was not in compliance with the Francis Mater Plan, they wanted the road to go all the way through, that is why we went with the higher density. But the lots are bigger than ½ acre lots, they are .7 acre lots. Closed Public Hearing Commissioner Mortell asked about the placement of the mail box. Mr. Peterson answered he has talked with the postmaster and he has given approval to move it off of Gines Line just inside the subdivision. Engineer Kettle explained Francis has 3 standard road cross sections we use for local subdivisions. 1. Curb, gutter and sidewalk, but we have never used this one. 2. 30 feet of asphalt with bar ditches, and no walk ways; this is what is in the Wild Willow subdivision. 3. 30 feet of asphalt and 6 feet of walk way on one side of the road and this is what is in River Bluffs. Kettle explained these are options you can recommend to the City Council. Commissioner Mortell asked about a park in the subdivision. Chair Vorwaller explained looking at the guidelines in the General Plan they are suggestions not statutes. Vorwaller added if every subdivision or neighborhood with 10 house put in a park we would have an abundance of parks that would never be taken care of because we do not have the city staff to do that. Commissioner Handsaker motioned to forward to the City Council with the recommendation outlined by Horrocks Engineers. Commissioner Mortell seconded the motion. All voting in favor. Motioned passed.
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Francis City Planning Commission Meeting February 23, 2017 Planner Update Planner Burrell reminded 1. City Council meeting will be held on March 9th 2. Next Planning Commission meeting will be on March 16th General Plan Discussion with Bob Allen from Mountainland Association of Governments Quick overview of Discussion about zoning Bob Allen explained the land use map we are talking about tonight is a future land use map; we will talk about what could happen in the future. Allen gave a projection for future growth, by 2040 Francis is projected to grow out to 3,500. Allen showed a map of Francis with circles showing Commercial, Medium Density Residential, Low Density Residential, Residential Agriculture and Agriculture. This is a starting point and we can make changes. Allen started with Commercial, you need to be careful where you put it and you want to cluster it. Smaller lots in center of town, bigger lots as you move out. Allen commented it is good to follow your road master plan. Bob Allen stated as you grow you will get some commercial and when you think about commercial you want it to be successful and you want it to fit with the City, which is the number one rule for a smaller community. You will get a finite amount of commercial based off of your size. Until we grow we will not get a lot of commercial and Kamas is already way ahead of us and they will always dominate when it comes to commercial. We need to be very careful where we put commercial and we should cluster it together because commercial feeds off of other commercial. Allen suggested the cross road at the four-way-stop is prime for commercial. Allen reminded we are talking in generalities at this point we are not zoning any bodies property we are just talking generalities. Chair Vorwaller commented commercial is better off on the main arterial roads. If we want it to sustain so we have a tax base for the City to help us with infrastructure so the citizens don’t have to pay for all of it. Bob Allen commented on the location of the gravel pit and in the future that would be a prime location for building lots because of the views and location.
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Francis City Planning Commission Meeting February 23, 2017 Bob Allen reminded that in staying rural and keeping building lots 1 acre or 5 acres, the problem is you start pricing out the residents. And your kids will not be able to afford to live here. Bob Allen stated you cannot control property value or the real estate market, the only thing you can control is the size of the lot. Bob Allen talked about industrial, light and heavy. Allen asked the Planning Commission to think about what they want. Chair Vorwaller asked if heavy industry gave any benefits, (bang for the buck) Bob Allen answered not really. Retail and sales tax is what drives funds for the community. Chair Vorwaller commented industry supplies jobs, not necessarily a tax base. Commissioner Mortell commented her concern is impact versus benefit to the community. Bob Allen commented he thinks the gravel pit falls under heavy industrial not light industrial. Light industrial is more like White Knight in Kamas, small manufacturing. Chair Vorwaller commented this is a commuter town, we are going to commute to go to work, and there are not enough jobs here to sustain us and Vorwaller does not want to necessarily bring heavy industrial in to bring more jobs in. Bob Allen stated Francis has a good master future roads plan. Adjourn Commissioner Handsaker motioned to adjourn. Commissioner Littleford seconded the motion. All voting in favor. Motioned passed adjourned at 8:42 p.m. The Content of the minutes is not intended, nor are they submitted as a verbatim transcription of the meeting. These minutes are a brief overview of what occurred at the meeting.
These minutes were ___x____ approved as presented. ________ approved as amended at the meeting held on April 27, 2017.
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Present: Commissioner Trent Handsaker, Commissioner Casey Vorwaller Commissioner Mark Littleford, Commissioner Amy Mortell, Planner Marcy Burrell, Engineer Kettle and Planning Secretary Susan Moses Excused: Commissioner Jason Averett Other Present: Bob Allen, Ray Peterson, Mac Cox, Morgan Cox, Collet Mattson, Elaine Robb, Jan & Sherri Brussel, Jill Gawreluk Call Meeting to Order: Planner Burrell called meeting to order at 7:03 p.m. and introduced the Planning Commission Vote on new Planning Commission Chair and Co-Chair for 2017 Commissioner Handsaker motioned Casey Vorwaller for Planning Commission Chair. Commissioner Mortell seconded the motion. All voting in favor. Motion passed. Commissioner Vorwaller motioned for Commissioner Handsaker Planning Commission Co-Chair. Commissioner Littleford seconded the motion. All voting in favor. Motion passed Public Hearing with possible action: Southfields Preliminary Subdivision Planner Burrell read staff report.
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Francis City Planning Commission Meeting February 23, 2017 Public Hearing Opened Those who commented on the proposed subdivision are Morgan Cox, Collet Mattson, Elaine Robb, Jill Gawreluk, Jan Brussel and Mac Cox. All live on Gines Lane and all are opposed to this development. Comments were made about: 1. We need to have larger lots in this part of Francis not ½ acre lots 2. We need to maintain our rural atmosphere 3. We need to preserve our agricultural heritage 4. Concerned Gines Lane is too small to add more traffic 5. Concerned about safety on Gines Lane if there is more traffic, residents will not be able to continue to ride horses, bikes or walk on Gines Line 6. Concerned about the quality of air and adding more homes and cars will contribute to air pollution 7. Concerned about the impact of growth on our water, sewer, schools and roads 8. We need to follow the General Plan 9. Concerned we will over build and lose the quality of life we enjoy Jill Gawreluk asked how many homes will exit off of Gines Lane. Planner Burrell answered lots 11 and 12 will have driveways off of Gines Lane. The rest will enter and exit off the road into the subdivision. Mr. Peterson asked if it would be allowed to do a shared access with lots 11 and 12. Engineer Kettle answered we could look at that. Elaine Robb asked if this was already approved and our input does not have any impact. Co-Chair Handsaker responded as far as the Planning Commission it does not matter whether our opinion is for or against, we are an advisory board and we are administrative. Our duty is make sure it meets our code and if it does we forward it on to the City Council. Chair Vorwaller stated ours is an administrative duty and the emotional appeal is for the City Council. The Planning Commission has to see whatever is being proposed fits whatever zoning it is going into to make sure it follows all of the rules of that zone, if it does not then we can make a motion to throw it out or amended it. As far as denying it or requiring a complete change we do not have that authority.
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Francis City Planning Commission Meeting February 23, 2017 Jill Gawreluk asked where do we go for zoning, who makes the decisions for zoning? Chair Vorwaller answered the City Council. Engineer Kettle stated we are going to update the General Plan, come to the meetings and give your input. It starts with the Planning Commission and then it goes to the City Council and they approve, make changes or deny it. Morgan Cox expressed his concern that while we are working on the General Plan Developers keep coming in and these subdivisions keep getting built. Chair Vorwaller stated unfortunately we cannot put a moratorium on any construction in Francis while we try and figure out what it is the General Plan is going to become. That is an ever developing beast that we are trying to work on right now and it can be very frustrating. Jan Brussel asked when you talk about the Codes what weight does the General Plan or the intent of the General Plan carry, is that part of the criteria or are those suggestion that are overridden by the zoning density. Planner Burrell explained the General Plan, the Development Code and the different zoning. Bob Allen explained the difference between the General Plan and the Development Code and reminded the time to get involved is when we start updating the General Plan. Chair Vorwaller commented the Planning Commission Members live here to, we are your neighbors, we live here for the same reasons you live here and we love this place. Vorwaller stated he drives 65 miles a day to go to work and there is no way he will ever move down into the valley. He loves being here and loves the feel of this place. The reason they serve on the Planning Commission is to make sure they can influence that Francis grows correctly, if it is going to grow. We can’t keep people out. We can affect how the City develops and how it grows and what we have. Commissioner Littleford commented he moved into this valley 48 years ago and what I wanted to see is not what I see now. When people started to move in I did not like it, but it is America and if they meet the codes they can move around as they choose. It is hard to separate the emotion. If it is going to grow we need to have a concept of what we want it to look like and we need to retain those values. Page 3 of 6
Francis City Planning Commission Meeting February 23, 2017 If the Plan is there and we are an advisory board our task is to make sure it is legal, and it is our job to make recommendations to the City Council. Bob Allen gave an assignment to everyone. What does rural mean to you? Then he stated the answerer cannot be “no more houses.” Allen asked that they share that information with Planner Burrell so it can get back to the Planning Commission and they can try and work with that. Mr. Peterson commented when he first came in they wanted to do a cul-de-sac but that was not in compliance with the Francis Mater Plan, they wanted the road to go all the way through, that is why we went with the higher density. But the lots are bigger than ½ acre lots, they are .7 acre lots. Closed Public Hearing Commissioner Mortell asked about the placement of the mail box. Mr. Peterson answered he has talked with the postmaster and he has given approval to move it off of Gines Line just inside the subdivision. Engineer Kettle explained Francis has 3 standard road cross sections we use for local subdivisions. 1. Curb, gutter and sidewalk, but we have never used this one. 2. 30 feet of asphalt with bar ditches, and no walk ways; this is what is in the Wild Willow subdivision. 3. 30 feet of asphalt and 6 feet of walk way on one side of the road and this is what is in River Bluffs. Kettle explained these are options you can recommend to the City Council. Commissioner Mortell asked about a park in the subdivision. Chair Vorwaller explained looking at the guidelines in the General Plan they are suggestions not statutes. Vorwaller added if every subdivision or neighborhood with 10 house put in a park we would have an abundance of parks that would never be taken care of because we do not have the city staff to do that. Commissioner Handsaker motioned to forward to the City Council with the recommendation outlined by Horrocks Engineers. Commissioner Mortell seconded the motion. All voting in favor. Motioned passed.
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Francis City Planning Commission Meeting February 23, 2017 Planner Update Planner Burrell reminded 1. City Council meeting will be held on March 9th 2. Next Planning Commission meeting will be on March 16th General Plan Discussion with Bob Allen from Mountainland Association of Governments Quick overview of Discussion about zoning Bob Allen explained the land use map we are talking about tonight is a future land use map; we will talk about what could happen in the future. Allen gave a projection for future growth, by 2040 Francis is projected to grow out to 3,500. Allen showed a map of Francis with circles showing Commercial, Medium Density Residential, Low Density Residential, Residential Agriculture and Agriculture. This is a starting point and we can make changes. Allen started with Commercial, you need to be careful where you put it and you want to cluster it. Smaller lots in center of town, bigger lots as you move out. Allen commented it is good to follow your road master plan. Bob Allen stated as you grow you will get some commercial and when you think about commercial you want it to be successful and you want it to fit with the City, which is the number one rule for a smaller community. You will get a finite amount of commercial based off of your size. Until we grow we will not get a lot of commercial and Kamas is already way ahead of us and they will always dominate when it comes to commercial. We need to be very careful where we put commercial and we should cluster it together because commercial feeds off of other commercial. Allen suggested the cross road at the four-way-stop is prime for commercial. Allen reminded we are talking in generalities at this point we are not zoning any bodies property we are just talking generalities. Chair Vorwaller commented commercial is better off on the main arterial roads. If we want it to sustain so we have a tax base for the City to help us with infrastructure so the citizens don’t have to pay for all of it. Bob Allen commented on the location of the gravel pit and in the future that would be a prime location for building lots because of the views and location.
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Francis City Planning Commission Meeting February 23, 2017 Bob Allen reminded that in staying rural and keeping building lots 1 acre or 5 acres, the problem is you start pricing out the residents. And your kids will not be able to afford to live here. Bob Allen stated you cannot control property value or the real estate market, the only thing you can control is the size of the lot. Bob Allen talked about industrial, light and heavy. Allen asked the Planning Commission to think about what they want. Chair Vorwaller asked if heavy industry gave any benefits, (bang for the buck) Bob Allen answered not really. Retail and sales tax is what drives funds for the community. Chair Vorwaller commented industry supplies jobs, not necessarily a tax base. Commissioner Mortell commented her concern is impact versus benefit to the community. Bob Allen commented he thinks the gravel pit falls under heavy industrial not light industrial. Light industrial is more like White Knight in Kamas, small manufacturing. Chair Vorwaller commented this is a commuter town, we are going to commute to go to work, and there are not enough jobs here to sustain us and Vorwaller does not want to necessarily bring heavy industrial in to bring more jobs in. Bob Allen stated Francis has a good master future roads plan. Adjourn Commissioner Handsaker motioned to adjourn. Commissioner Littleford seconded the motion. All voting in favor. Motioned passed adjourned at 8:42 p.m. The Content of the minutes is not intended, nor are they submitted as a verbatim transcription of the meeting. These minutes are a brief overview of what occurred at the meeting.
These minutes were ___x____ approved as presented. ________ approved as amended at the meeting held on April 27, 2017.
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